Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2019 September 1

= September 1 =

Artillery piece
Is it German 8.8 cm Flak 18/36/37/41 or some other artillery piece? I'm not 100% sure for Commons upload, thanks. Brandmeistertalk  08:34, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It is a Soviet 85 mm air defense gun M1939 (52-K). See: . [edited] 2606:A000:1126:28D:C4E6:C890:C83B:1F95 (talk) 21:19, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Ireland, the island
The term "Ireland" ambiguously refers to the Republic of Ireland (a country), and to the island landmass co-inhabited by the RoI and by Northern Ireland. I think the same is true of the term "Éire".

Is there a term that refers unambiguously to the landmass? The way that Great Britain (I believe) refers to the island inhabited by England, Scotland, etc. Thanks. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 22:36, 1 September 2019 (UTC)


 * "The island of Ireland". --76.69.116.4 (talk) 23:09, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Perhaps Hibernia (although 76.69…’s suggestion is probably the most practical) . Cheers ⌘  hugarheimur 03:53, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Sometimes the "26 counties" refers to the Republic of Ireland, the "6 counties" to Northern Ireland, and the "32 counties" refers to the whole geographical island... AnonMoos (talk) 05:49, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Would saying 32 counties make you sound like a republican or is it neutral? What are ROI Ulsters called? It can't be supercounties. Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 12:46, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * This is not particularly partisan (as far as I'm aware), but it's dryly administrative, and would not be widely understood internationally. "Ulster" as traditionally defined includes 6 counties now in Northern Ireland and 3 counties now in the Republic of Ireland.  Otherwise, I'm not sure what you're asking? AnonMoos (talk) 16:41, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * P.S. If you're referring to the traditional regions of Ulster, Leinster, Connaught, and Munster (sometimes also Meath), those are usually known as the "provinces"... AnonMoos (talk) 16:55, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Did the province of Meath include more than the counties of Meath and Westmeath? The cited article doesn't say. —Tamfang (talk) 03:57, 8 September 2019 (UTC)


 * As far as I can tell, some people thought Meath should be included as the home of the traditional High Kings, but there wasn't any real long-lasting agreement on what exactly that would mean... AnonMoos (talk) 22:48, 8 September 2019 (UTC)


 * This does not qualify as ambiguous to me, considering the claims for the unification, and the recent enough (as History goes) separation. For instance, Irish immigrants to USA would come from "Ireland", whether they came before or after the separate political entity came to existence.
 * The ambiguity is the one that exists for most countries: Italy, France or Jamaica will refer to the land or the political entity, and you will need context to determine whether one or the other is spoken of. I know only a few case (Korean peninsula, Hispaniola...) working differently.
 * I tend to understand "Éire" as only RoI, and "Ireland" as the whole island landmass, but I only use "Ireland" for both, as it doesn't matter to have "Ulster" not excluded even when speaking of just the Southern part. Context will be enough to make it obvious what we are we speaking of: the island, the RoI, or even a smaller part (I mean, when a member of family goes "to Ireland", it actually means nor the RoI nor the whole island, but just the home of the relatives they are visiting). Gem fr (talk) 08:58, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * My reason for asking how to refer to the island was trying to figure out a succinct description of the Irish backstop issue affecting Brexit. That requires distinguishing the geographical island from the political entities on it. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 09:39, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * One concept used in the discussions is having a customs (but not administrative) "border" "in (or down) the Irish Sea" - such as here. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:24, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Customs officers can control anywhere in the country. Ports (both sea and river), major cities gates, important bridges, tower controlling major road etc. were used, in past time, because such place made sense more than borders. Nowadays, drugs are be controlled just anywhere. UK can surely apply a control "at sea" (actually, at ports). Countries have agreement allowing foreign customs officers to visit and control production place exporting stuff to the officers' country. For instance, European officers visit production place in Canada exporting to UE, and vice-versa (of course, some Canadian official is there, and is the one with the legal power). Eurostar is common ground for Belgian, French and English customs officers, regardless of the country the train currently is. etc. Bottom line: customs and border are different things. Gem fr (talk) 00:34, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Gem fr. Most people hearing "Eire" would assume it refers to the country, unless the speaker was making a political point and/or a confirmed republican, in which case it'd be ambiguous. I'd go with "the island of Ireland", as suggested by the anon above, or, if you're feeling archaic/poetic, "Erin". --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:58, 2 September 2019 (UTC)


 * your post reminds of why - when working a crossword puzzle - if the clue is Ireland and the answer is four letters I can only enter the first "e" with any certainty then I have to work some of the other answers to be sure of which three letters follow on :-) Cheers. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 17:32, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * lol! --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 18:01, 3 September 2019 (UTC)


 * See also Terminology of the British Isles, which also uses the term "island of Ireland" and discusses the political connotations of the various terms, which are manifold. Alansplodge (talk) 18:04, 3 September 2019 (UTC)
 * "All-Ireland" is also used, especially in sporting contexts: see All-Ireland League (rugby union) and All-Ireland Senior Football Championship. Alansplodge (talk) 21:43, 6 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Potentially confusingly, Sri Lanka, which is one country, uses the term "all-island" in a range of competitive contexts: . --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  20:56, 8 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Unusually, the see of Armagh exists in the hierarchies of both the Church of Ireland and the Roman Catholic Church (although the boundaries are different).  Both sees are archiepiscopal (i.e. occupied by archbishops) and the style ("Primate of All Ireland") is the same.   Incidentally, there are separate categories "Roman Catholic dioceses in Ireland" and "Roman Catholic dioceses in Northern Ireland" and some sees are listed in neither.  2A00:23C5:E111:C500:D135:801A:882D:AEBF (talk) 16:40, 7 September 2019 (UTC)