Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 August 2

= August 2 =

Powers of an outgoing US President
In the event that an incumbent US president loses an election in November, are their powers diminished until Jan 20th. For instance, could the president still declare war or a state of emergency to prolong their time in office. Or would this require the consent of the president-elect or congress.

Also, does the composition of congress change automatically after the election or like the presidency, does it transfer in January?

Seems to me entirely feasible - although I might very well be wrong - that should Trump lose in November that he’ll try and use procedural chicanery/loopholes to try and prolong his time in office. I guess my question is about the checks and balances in place to constrain an outgoing President Who is reluctant to leave. —Andrew 11:45, 2 August 2020 (UTC)


 * See lame duck (politics). 2A00:23C5:D10F:E000:6CCA:8E5F:84F8:FC30 (talk) 11:53, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Also United States House of Representatives says: "A term starts on January 3 following the election in November". Alansplodge (talk) 18:30, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * On the checks and balances, see BBC - US election: Does Trump have power to delay it? for an overview, or for more detail, Preparing for a Disputed Presidential Election: An Exercise in Election Risk Assessment and Management from Loyola University Chicago. Alansplodge (talk) 18:41, 2 August 2020 (UTC)


 * I can think of no constitutional way to stay in power past Jan 20 if the electoral college hasn’t selected you as president. The term ending on that day means quite literally that you are no longer President and every action thereafter taken becomes unlawful and therefore invalidatable by a court, in the same way as an action by an illegally-appointed federal administrator would be unlawful and therefore invalidatable by a court. My gut instinct is that if the results of the electoral college were contested, or an electoral college wasn’t held, the two options are (1) presume the offices of President and Vice President are vacant and therefore the offices would be filled by the Presidential succession (likely giving us, presuming nothing else shocking happens in the election, President Pelosi), or (2) the House would vote as though the Electoral College were deadlocked (again presuming no shocking changes in the makeup of the House, likely giving us President Biden). Of course, this is making a lot of assumptions and putting aside the entirely possible revolution or coup that accompanies a constitutional crisis of that magnitude. 199.66.69.67 (talk) 20:37, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Interestingly, if the election DOES go to the House of Representatives, Trump is actually MORE likely to win re-election. This is because the vote ISN’T done by each Representative voting.  The way it works is this: the Representatives for each STATE meet as a delegation, and determine who their STATE will vote for.  Then each STATE casts one vote for their candidate to determine the winner.
 * Example: California has a majority of representatives who are Democrats, so California will go to Biden - Georgia on the other hand has more Republicans, so Georgia will go to Trump.
 * Thing is... when you break the House up state-by-state...there are more STATES that have a majority of Republican congressmen, thus more STATES will go to Trump. Trump wins. Blueboar (talk) 21:09, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That may be true of the current House of Representatives but in this scenario, it would be the new House sworn in on January 3, 2021 that votes, not the current House. If the Democrats pick up a significant number of seats, that dynamic could change. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  21:16, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Valid point... I am not sure when the House is supposed to vote (before or after January 3rd). That would make a difference.
 * Another fun fact... the various state delegations are under no obligation to vote for Trump OR Biden. Technically, someone else could end up as President. Blueboar (talk) 21:54, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, our articles on the various parts of this question state that, according to the Twentieth Amendment to the United States Constitution, the selection of President in the case of no victor in the Electoral College is the responsibility of the incoming Congress. --Khajidha (talk) 22:18, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Ah, quite right Blueboar. Trump would probably win under that scenario (given my caveat earlier that there were no shocking changes in the House makeup following the election). That brings some interesting skulduggery that could happen. Supposing Speaker Pelosi knows that Trump would win if the House voted, what would happen if the House simply failed to schedule a vote (a la the Senate did for Judge Garland)? If the office of the President were vacant on January 20 as a result of the House not voting, could mean President Pelosi. But again, this is presuming a lot of truly crazy eventualities and I can’t imagine what would have to happen for the Electoral College not to meet. It’d require an inconceivable failure of election results not being reported to the point that no quorum of electors could be formed. The Constitution doesn’t seem to discuss the quorum necessary for the Electoral College, though I suppose it’s likely there’s a federal statute that does. 199.66.69.67 (talk) 22:46, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * I infer from United States Electoral College that the new Congress' first order of business would be to count the electoral votes. And there's only an issue if no one has a majority or if it's a tie. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:23, 2 August 2020 (UTC)
 * There could be other, far more intricate complications. See the links posted above by Alan Plodge. --Lambiam 21:09, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Having finally checked the relevant statutes, highly relevant is, especially Sections 2, 4, 5, 7–13, and particularly 19. My take is that, if the election were entirely disrupted, such that no state appointed any electors, the outcome would be that the Speaker of the House would become "acting President". I could only see this happen if the United States government became a government in exile and the legitimate state governments either refused to acknowledge that government, or themselves no longer existed. Pretty much anything else is left to the States, like what to do if there's a problem appointing electors, or if a segment of the state's votes couldn't be counted and legal challenges couldn't be finished in time for the counting of the electoral votes (see Bush v. Gore). 199.66.69.67 (talk) 03:02, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
 * For a non-US similar situation, see 1984 New Zealand constitutional crisis, where the government lost the election but resisted cooperating with the newly elected party on an urgent matter.- gadfium 23:42, 2 August 2020 (UTC)