Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 December 26

= December 26 =

Ho ho ho
Santa Claus in America is always laughing sounding "Ho ho ho". How did this start? From a movie or a book? Thank you. Hevesli (talk) 01:36, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Probably because that's what people in the 19th century thought that a jolly person would say. Not as close to laughing as "ha ha ha" or "heh heh heh", but sort of in the same ballpark. AnonMoos (talk) 09:32, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Nothing specific yet, but A History of Engliah Dramatic Literature, London 1875 (p. 53) says in a footnote: "'Ho ho ho' and 'Oute Haro out out' are the exclamations by which the Devil is wont to announce himself in the miracles. In Jonson's The Devil Is an Ass Satan enters with the usual 'Hoh, hoh, hoh,' an evident reminiscence from the old mysteries and moralities". Alansplodge (talk) 12:34, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The Welvome Guest: A Magazine of Recreative Reading for All, London 1861 (pp. 571-572) quotes a poem attributed to Ben Jonson about Robin Goodfellow (a mischievous spirit or fairy, also known as Puck): "More swift than winde away I go / O'er hedge and lands / Through pools and ponds / I whirry laughing Ho! Ho! Ho!".
 * Also Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream has Puck saying "Ho, ho, ho! Coward, why comest thou not?" (Act III, Scene II).
 * How Father Christmas followed on from Satan and Puck is the missing link at the moment. Alansplodge (talk) 12:58, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * According to EO, "ho-ho-ho" representing laughter has been around for about 800 years. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:30, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, perhaps I was over-thinking it... Alansplodge (talk) 14:06, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * The earliest reference I can find directly connecting Father Christmas / Santa Claus with the phrase is a song by William Batchelder Bradbury called The Christmas Tree, or Kris Kringle, which appears in his Fresh Laurels for the Sabbath School New York 1867 (No. 148):
 * "O, this is Santa Claus's man, Kris Kringle with his Christmas tree. Oh ho, Oh ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho, ho..."
 * Interestingly, here Kris Kringle is portrayed as a separate character to Santa Claus; Wikipedia suggests a connection with the German Christkind, although that doesn't really seem to fit with Bradbury's lyrics. Alansplodge (talk) 14:06, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Wiktionary gives German Christkindl as the etymon of Kris Kringle. In the American tradition two end-of-the-year gift-bringers became conflated. --Lambiam 14:48, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks all for answering, but the wide spread of the phenomenon still puzzles me. If the American child hears "ho ho ho" she knows that Santa Claus is around the corner. Jolly people don't laugh all the time, but Santa Claus does. He could only laugh "ho ho" or make a change "ha ha ha" but it is always "ho ho ho". How to explain this is become so completely fixed is what I don't understand. Hevesli (talk) 14:39, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * As another data point, The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus from 1902 has him living for a while in the Laughing Valley of Hohaho, suggesting both that the hos were entrenched but not yet quite in their current formulation. The Puck quote is an interesting one; he seems to be using it the way many people do now - not quite an earnest laugh, but a show of haughtiness or sarcasm. Matt Deres (talk) 15:00, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Because he has three gardens.  Lugnuts  Fire Walk with Me 18:39, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Or, keeps company with three prostitutes? 2603:6081:1C00:1187:3126:540A:D85A:8430 (talk) 19:48, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Bad Santa wants a hoe, hoe, hoe. Clarityfiend (talk) 23:51, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * just a sad Christmas "song".. Gfigs (talk) 07:48, 27 December 2020 (UTC)

HMS Clio (1858)
Trying to find the port of calls and dates for HMS Clio (1858) in 1865. It landed in Honolulu from Valparaíso on April 9, 1865 and left on May 6. Presumably touched based in Mexico and Panama in June. When did it leave Valparaíso? Some sources mentioned that it was going around the world so where did it come from before Valparaíso and did it make a circumnavigation that year after leaving Panama? KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:01, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It sailed to Valparaiso from the Juan Fernández Islands, arriving on 22 February 1865. Later that year, in December, it was in Fort Rupert, shelling a First Nations village. --Antiquary (talk) 19:56, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It served on the British Columbia coast from 1864 to 1868. On its way out to Valparaiso in late 1864 it touched at Madeira, Ascension and the Falklands.  If its return voyage in 1868 was via the Pacific and Indian Oceans then that might explain any talk about a circumnavigation. --Antiquary (talk) 20:21, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Orkhan
I'd like know to know the original source/age of this leadimage, preferably with something to cite in the article. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:23, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Konstantin Kapıdağlı and John Young. The series was published in 1815 as "Portraits of the Emperors of Turkey from the Foundation of the Monarchy to the year 1808". KAVEBEAR (talk) 21:45, 26 December 2020 (UTC)


 * Most excellent. Thanks! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:56, 26 December 2020 (UTC)