Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 February 15

= February 15 =

Afong at Yale
Looking for any contemporary source of the attendance of Chun Chik-yu (Toney Afong or Toney Chun, many variation of name) at Yale University in the 1870s or 1880s. His brother Chun Alung or Chun Lung was also a student under the guardianship of Yung Wing. There is some inconsistencies in the published sources: Dye 2010 (p. 26) say he went to Harvard, but it is not found in the much more researched 1997 book by Dye which gives the narrative of most members of his family including the son who actually went to Harvard Albert Fayerweather Leialoha Afong. For Toney's Yale attendance, we have Teng 2013: "Chen Fang sent two of his sons, Alung and Toney, to study in Hartford under Yung Wing's guardianship, and then at Yale. Another son attended Harvard." . Also Char 1975. Also. Hence the need for either an alumni book entry or an obituary stating his attendance at Yale or Harvard. KAVEBEAR (talk) 07:25, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

His son Chun Wing Sen Afong was a member of the Yale Class of 1912. His class biography doesn't mention that his father attended Yale, but does mention Chun Lung as a member of the class of 1879. If you know the date of Chun Lung's death, it should be easy to find more in his entry in the Yale Obituary Record. Here's the text (p. 49, History of the Class of 1912 Yale College): "Chun Wing Sen Afong was born November 7, 1887, in Macao, China. "His father, Chun Tong Afong, born June 12, 1859 in Honolulu is in the banking, railroad and shipping business in China. Mrs. Afong was Juilien Chang. K. P. Tsais, '12S., S. K. Tsai, '81, and Chun Lung, '79, are Yale relatives. "Afong prepared for Yale at Hartford Public High School. He was a member of the Corinthian Each Club, the Yale Chinese Students Club and the Cosmopolitcan Club. He roomsd alone throughout his course at 200 York Street, the Hutch, 413 Berkely and 52 Vanderbilt. "Afong intends to enter the Political Service in China. His permanent mail address is 101 Praya Grande, Macao, China"). "('12S indicates that K. P. Tsais attended the Sheffield Scientific School at Yale.) - Nunh-huh 09:39, 15 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Chun Lung died in 1889 and has a brief entry in the Yale Obituary Record:
 * 1879 [indicating he graduated in the class of 1879]
 * Chun Lung, son of Afong Chun, a wealthy Chinese merchant of Kwantung Province, was born in the town of Kai Sheongsan, in the year 1856. In his infancy his father's business required the removal of his family to the Hawaiian Islands. The son was sent to this country to obtain an education, and was prepared for College in Hartford, Conn.
 * After graduation he went to China to take charge of his father's interests there, but about 1883 he was recalled to the Hawaiian Islands. He died in Honolulu, of typhoid fever, August, 11, 1889, at the age of 33.
 * If a brother had attended Yale it would usually be mentioned in the obituary, and the brother also doesn't seem to be among the "Yale relatives" mentioned.- Nunh-huh 09:46, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * In the Yale Obituary Record of 1925/6, there is Chun Wing Sen Afong, (1887-1924) B.A. 1912 on pp. 206 &ff. The pertinent paragraph of genealogy/Yale relatives: "Father, Chun Chik-yu; former civil governor of Canton; engaged in banking and in railroad and shipping business; son of Wing Ah Fong who lived in Honolulu for some years. Mother, Juilien Chang. Yale relatives: Lung Chun, '79, (uncle) and Shou Kie Tsai, ex-'83, and Kwo Pao Tsai, '12 S." - Nunh-huh 09:54, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Any indication he went to Harvard? KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:20, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

This source indicate Toney attended Trinity College (Connecticut). Do we have any record that from the institution? Also was "Hartford Public High School" another byname for Trinity College or another institution completely?KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:58, 16 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Though they're both in Hartford, Trinity College and Hartford Public High School don't have any institutional connection. Hartford Public High School was the older of the two, having been founded in 1638. Trinity College was founded in 1823 as "Washington College", and changed its name to Trinity in 1845. - Nunh-huh 22:58, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
 * This reference from the Journal of the Chinese Historical Society of America contains a footnote of interest: "Yale University has Chun Lung’s records, but I have yet to document that Toney went to Harvard. I am relying here on what some descendants were told. Also, Toney is thought by some descendants to have attended Trinity (Hartford) or Yale, but neither college has a record of his attendance." - Nunh-huh 23:02, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Basil
If Thai basil is unavailable, do you think that ordinary basil would work in a SE Asian dish? I.e., yes it would obviously taste different, but would it ruin the dish? —— SN  54129  18:13, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * We don't provide opinions here (yeah, right) -- try it and let your own taste-buds be your guide. 2606:A000:1126:28D:4D5C:8AA9:C63B:2D9B (talk) 18:43, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't want to waste a packet of mince :)   ——  SN  54129  19:07, 15 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Ruin it how? By not tasting like licorice? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:46, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Well, yeah, I guess. If the OP is concerned about that, they could likely sub in a little anise, which is typically widely available in most spice racks. Matt Deres (talk) 20:26, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, they could. My point being to reinforce the previous points, that whether something tastes good or not is often a matter of personal likes and dislikes. I, for one, hate the taste of licorice. Even liver is better, and that's not saying much. But plenty of folks like licorice. And some even like liver. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:48, 15 February 2020 (UTC)


 * According to our article on Thai basil, in Thai dishes the basil used used in drunken noodles and many chicken, pork, and seafood dishes is holy basil (tulsi); in the West Thai basil may be used instead because it is much more readily available. Does your SE Asian dish fall in these categories? Tulsi is often available in dried form as a herbal tea in specialty stores. This review of a subscription box with a Thai dish reports, "Although I had to substitute basil for Thai basil, the dish was still exquisite." And this recipe for Thai basil pesto states, "Sweet Basil and Thai Basil can easily be substituted for the other if you don’t have the variety called for in the recipe. Because Thai Basil is stronger than Sweet Basil, you may want to increase the amount of basil in your recipe some to intensify the flavor of the dish." Quotes from some other websites with recipes: "Thai basil is obviously the best basil leaf to use for this recipe. However, if necessary, you can also use sweet basil. You may be able to replicate the intensity of the herb by just using more of it than you would use the Thai basil." — "Thai basil is what you should be using in this Thai chicken stir fry recipe. But if it's hard to find the authentic version of Thai basil, you can use ordinary Italian sweet basil (that's what I have used in my video)." – "Q. Would this still taste good with regular basil? A. Sure – I think the dish would still be good, but it will be different. Thai basil is usually a little more sweet, and has a slight anise kick in it. But with the other seasonings in the dish, I’m sure it’ll still taste very similar. :)" I hope this is helpful. --Lambiam 21:20, 15 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks everyone! That was really helpful, cheers. Together we can create a world of peace, prosperity and non-liquorice flavored mince 😊 ——  SN  54129  07:42, 16 February 2020 (UTC)