Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 July 17

= July 17 =

"The Right looks for converts, the Left looks for traitors"
Who first said, and when, "the Right looks for converts, the Left looks for traitors". It's bandied about as "an old saying" but I can't find any usage before 2006, when it's remarked upon as "It may be old, but it's new to me". Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 14:26, 17 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Here's someone (sort of) admitting authorship and here's confirmation:. 31.124.153.207 (talk) 15:09, 17 July 2020 (UTC)


 * That's nine years after the earliest use I've found so far, and the "World Wit and Wisdom" site is not a reliable source. DuncanHill (talk) 20:49, 17 July 2020 (UTC)


 * And invented by a right-winger, yes? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:19, 17 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Inventing "attributions" for well-known and not-so-well-known sayings is a real growth industry these days. Between them, Mark Twain, Mahatma Gandhi, William Shakespeare and Winston Churchill account for 95% of them. Sometimes the attribution is actually correct but the wording of the quote is horribly mangled. It's a desparate situation, and the government should do something. --   Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  22:30, 17 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Plenty of funny comments have been attributed to Yogi Berra just because they sounded like something he might say. But unlike those other guys, it was happening while he was alive. He refuted such broad attribution by saying, "I never said half the things I said." ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:00, 18 July 2020 (UTC)


 * In the version I've heard, the last word is heretics; try looking for that? —Tamfang (talk) 00:23, 18 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Aha! Well done Tamfang. I found Michael Kinsley which has as the first quotation: "Conservatives are always looking for converts, whereas liberals are always looking for heretics". Quoted in Two Steps Ahead of the Thought Police by John Leo (1998) p. 61. We also have an article, Michael Kinsley, but I haven't found a pointer to the time and place of the actual quote. Alansplodge (talk) 11:14, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * A little closer, JustOneMinute blog, June 05, 2003: My Final Answer In The Quest For Converts And Heretics posted by Tom Maguire says:
 * "John Leo, columnist for US News and World Report (and proud possessor of a link from Matt Drudge, no less), was kind enough to send me an e-mail assuring me that the original source is Michael Kinsley. Apparently, Mr. Leo included the line in a Nov. 26, 1990 column rounding up the best aphorisms of the year. He also is kind enough to tell me that the correct quotation is: "Conservatives are always looking for converts, whereas liberals are always looking for heretics."
 * So our "old saying" dates all the way back to 1990! Alansplodge (talk) 11:28, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you, sterling work as always! DuncanHill (talk) 20:01, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Kinsley's version makes a lot more sense, and sounds like something he might say. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:26, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * In what way does it make more sense? I'm struggling trying to understand. Does it mean that, "the best liberal recruits are basically, heretics"? - or does it mean: "liberals don't need to recruit therefore they do exclude"? Pretty ambiguous, I must be missing something. --Askedonty (talk) 17:01, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "Heretics" makes a lot more sense than "traitors", which is an absurdity. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 21:20, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Askedonty, my take on the meaning is that conservatives are better at organising themselves for the benefit of their cause, whereas liberals are more prone to infighting and internal machinations. The People's Front of Judea sketch is said to be a parody of 1970s British left-wing politics in this respect. The current US administration seems to be a counterexample. Alansplodge (talk) 20:11, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I mean, how about Kinsley's version making more sense. "They are always looking for" is not feeling exactly the same era than "they are looking for". Or the quote was to be attributed to Kinsley's commenting the British satire you mentioned ? It can be discussed. My knowledge of  ante-2001 US politics can be resumed into two soaps: Dallas (1978 TV series), Dynasty (1981 TV series). They are not the left. They are very well worth the Front of Judea.  - In all confidentiality, it happens I do very well know at least one alternate meaning of "The Right looks for converts, the Left looks for traitors". What it translates into in the end in all simplicity is nothing else but "Life in the Fast Lane". Those Looks, suggested are to be given in the mirrors (check them, right, left). Kinsley's version, by contrast, cannot be converted. --Askedonty (talk) 21:49, 18 July 2020 (UTC)