Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 June 17

= June 17 =

Great Harrowden Hall and Caroline Sharp
Soon afterward, Caroline Sharp, her school mistress at Great Harrowden Hall, announced she would be closing her school. ...It remained a girls' school until 1898, shortly before which date Lord Vaux had bought the Hall from George Fitzwilliam.. Trying to understand the conflicting information in these two sources. Was Great Harrowden Hall closed in 1898 or earlier or in 1891/1892? When did schoolmistress Caroline Sharp leave the school? KAVEBEAR (talk) 03:43, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I found Unlucky Star: Princess Ka'iulani (p. 25 and Note 7 on p. 52) which says that Mrs Sharp aged 74, announced that she would give up the school at the end of 1891. Her husband Samuel Sharp, F.S.A., F.G.S. "died at Great Harrowden Hall on the 28th January, 1882, in his 68th year".
 * However, "GREAT HARROWDEN HALL, near Wellingborough. SCHOOL FOR YOUNG LADIES; Mrs. Sharp and the Misses Jeyes announce that the Third Term for 1882 will commence on Tuesday, September 26th. Professors attend weekly..." 16 September 1882 - Northampton Mercury. So perhaps she had a change of heart after her husband passed away.
 * Finally, confirmation that the school was still up and running in 1885: "Engraving of a photograph of a group portrait of Great Harrowden Hall Schoolgirls Team, players are wearing dresses with 2 wearing pads and holding bats, Strand Magazine, April 1895 (sadly we can't see the engraving). Cricket Life 1896
 * Alansplodge (talk) 14:35, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Commence means the end of a school year. Sharp would have been running the school until 1891 or 1892 at least but Unlucky Star conflicts with https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/northants/vol4/pp178-185 which states the school was still running until 1898. KAVEBEAR (talk) 17:29, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * "The English school year generally runs from early September to mid or late July of the following year. Most schools operate a three-term school year, each term divided in half... Independent schools generally operate an academic year similar to the above, but often have shorter terms and longer holidays" (from English school holidays). Anyhow, she announced that she would be leaving in December 1891 and was still there in the following September, which would indicate a change of plans. My suspicion is that she thought she would have to look after her ailing husband, but when he died it was business as usual. There's always the possibility that management passed to her assistants or that she sold the school to somebody else, but Google is silent on this point. Alansplodge (talk) 19:09, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Commence does not mean the end of a school year. If a term commences on a certain date, then that is the date at which it starts. DuncanHill (talk) 21:14, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Unless it commences on Opposite Day, for some dumb reason. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:48, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The word "commence" means "to start", but commencement (graduation) and commencement speeches occur at the end of the school year. I guess that's because that's when the students graduate and commence their working lives. 2602:24A:DE47:BB20:50DE:F402:42A6:A17D (talk) 23:09, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The original sense is actually that of commencing to enjoy the academic privileges of a master or doctor. --Lambiam 08:19, 18 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Great Harrowden is not, and never has been, in the USA where that usage occurs. DuncanHill (talk) 23:17, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's an unknown usage in England. The commencement of a school term is the start of it. School terms do not end in September here. Alansplodge (talk) 13:38, 18 June 2020 (UTC)

anti-smoking warning from a "Duke boy"
Back in the early 1980's, I remember seeing an anti-smoking public service announcement. It featured John Schneider warning viewers about how smoking isn't sexy. I can't seem to find it anywhere on YouTube. Could somebody help me, please?2604:2000:1281:4B3:D8AD:120A:982B:5DF7 (talk) 09:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Babylon is Fallen
I'm trying to find the words to an old hymn called "Babylon is Fallen". I've found a few versions online and some performances on youtube, but they are all missing a verse that I remember (maybe slightly garbled) as: Will ye waken, sleeping nation, Rise from slumber and disown Greed for power, the curse of Adam, While this life remains your own? That suggests the versions I found are missing other verses too. Any idea where to find them? Thanks. 2602:24A:DE47:BB20:50DE:F402:42A6:A17D (talk) 18:06, 17 June 2020 (UTC)


 * I found an early version in The Zion Songster: a Collection of Hymns and Spiritual Songs (p. 17) of 1833, but not the verse that you are looking for. None of my Google-tricks have been able to find it so far. Alansplodge (talk) 18:47, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * And an earlier one from 1813 in Millennial Praises: Containing a Collection of Gospel Hymns, in Four Parts (p. 50) which seems to be the same words as above, except it has a sixth verse which might have been a bit too close to the knuckle with the "scarlet colour'd whore" bit. . Alansplodge (talk) 18:50, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for looking: in any case, you found versions that I didn't spot. Maybe the verse I was looking for was added later by someone, and stayed obscure.  My next question was going to be about how to interpret it.  Other web searches indicate the curse of Adam resulted from his eating the forbidden fruit, but nothing about greed for power per se.  It may have been "thirst for power" and anyway fits a few of the 7 deadly sins. 2602:24A:DE47:BB20:50DE:F402:42A6:A17D (talk) 20:43, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Per Mortal Kombat 3, knowledge is power (though its article fails to mention this), so that's forbidden powerfruit in that tree. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:04, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * See also this commentary. The actual curse was that Adam would have to work for a living, but implicit in that is that in so doing, you could accumulate more than you needed and come to dominate others. Alansplodge (talk) 13:36, 18 June 2020 (UTC)