Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 June 24

= June 24 =

Monsieur du Boismenant
Who is "Monsieur du Boismenant" found in this quote ''In London, upon her return there , Kaiulani had been sitting for her portrait by Monsieur du Boismenant. She posed in a yellow ball gown, holding a bouquet of marguerites in her lap. Papa was much pleased with the pastel, which he intended to ship home to Ainahau when it was completed. But various friends who saw it, although they praised it , spoke of the "rather sad expression."''. It is a misspelling definitely. KAVEBEAR (talk) 06:48, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Where is the quote from, please provide a book or literary work as a basis for us to assist. Thank you.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anton.Brad (talk • contribs) 08:44, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * , try following the link that KAVEBEAR dutifully provided. I will presume that your failure to sign your post was an uncharacteristic slip.
 * KAVEBEAR, why are you so sure that the name as given is a misspelling? My French is far from adequate, but while it seems a little odd (since "bois menant" means something "wooden, leading" somewhere, and there is apparently no place called "Boismenant" that could give rise to the surname "du Boismenant") it doesn't seem obviously flawed or impossible as a French "nom de pinceau." {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.203.119.123 (talk) 09:28, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I made the assumption since I can't find it in other sources. Another explanation could be that this artist may be obscure? KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:51, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * How about this guy: https://www.mutualart.com/Artist/Jules-Gabriel-Dubois-menant/52B49AB12ED0D6AF 41.165.67.114 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:45, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Any idea if he was working in London in the 1890s? KAVEBEAR (talk) 09:52, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * No idea. Biographical info is thin. Not even a French Wikipedia article. Results from google.fr mostly refer to art auction sites. Only his age made me think he might be a fit. 41.165.67.114 (talk) 09:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Could this be the portrait in question? The bouquet is obviously missing, because it's drawn from the back. It's only facebook, I'm trying to find more on the Foundation that posted it. --Wrongfilter (talk) 10:01, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * He is mentioned in art catalogues and art books in the early 1890s which situate him in Paris, not London. La France á Moscou : Exposition de 1891 gives his address as 157 rue de Faubourg-Saint-Honoré. Societé des artistes français: Salon de 1893 (for a show in Paris in May 1893) gives his address as 7 rue Daubigny. It also mentions he was born in Craon, Mayenne, does lithographs, and is a pupil of one M. de Vuillefroy. He is also described as “M.H. 1890” which perhaps some clever person can decode.
 * Possibly Medal of Honor, perhaps from some French arts organisation (since he seems too obscure for it to be a national award)? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.203.119.123 (talk) 22:12, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Where do you find such "description"? Usually in France "M.H. (1890)" means "Classé [classée/classées/classés] au titre des Monuments Historiques en 1890." See – AldoSyrt (talk) 06:23, 25 June 2020 (UTC).
 * His portrait work is mentioned in L'Art et l'idée, Volumes 1-2, 1892 : M. Jules-Gabriele Dubois-Menant est élève de Vuillefroy ; son œuvre peinte est jusqu’ici plus considérable que ses pierre gravées. Il a donné le Pater Noster en 1980, Avant l’orage, en 1891, la Vielle chevrère, le Troupeau mouillé, le Retour des chèvres, en 1892. Il a été, en outre, le portraitiste de Vuillefroy, de l’étincelante Gyp, du général Robert, etc. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:02, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Typos: La Vieille chevrière. – AldoSyrt (talk) 06:23, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Many thanks AldoSyrt! So is the MH 1890 referring to the particular work Dubois-Menant has in the exhibition then? 70.67.193.176 (talk) 15:21, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * I do not deserve it! So sorry, I was completly wrong in this case. Page xviii of the referenced document shows a list of abbreviations used in the Catalogue du salon de 1893, "M.H." stands for "Mention honorable" (honorable mention). Dubois-Menant received an honorable mention for a work he presented in 1890. – AldoSyrt (talk) 16:28, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Aha! That makes sense, merci. So for Kavebear we have now shown he was a respected artist as well as one with high-society clients, even if we have not confirmed him visiting London as well as working out of Paris. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:36, 25 June 2020 (UTC)


 * An old French noble epithet is "de Boismenant". I found a reference to a photo signed "de Boismenant" in a description of an exhibition in a a 1903 book. I assume the signature is that of the photographer. Not very informative, but it appears that "Boismenant" may not be a typo. From the description in Kaiulani we see that the portrait was a pastel, not a photograph, which makes the Paris photographer less likely to have been the artist. The surname "Dubois-Menant" may derive from the same epithet, like "Durbeyfield" from "d'Urberville". --Lambiam 10:57, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This pastel is ascribed to "Jules Gabriel Dubois-Menant (1855–?)". Clearly, Dubois-Menant (generally described as a painter) also worked in pastel, which makes him a likely candidate. --Lambiam 11:10, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

The Prince Imperial and Napoleon's sword
According to our article on Napoléon, Prince Imperial he had "begged to be allowed to go to war (taking the sword carried by Napoleon I at Austerlitz with him)". What happened to the sword? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 20:49, 24 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Second floor, Boulogne room, Musée de l'Armée, Les Invalides


 * Willed to Napoleon II, deposited at Les Invalides sometime 1821-1840 15 December 1840 according to wikidata:Q30115013


 * Retour des cendres


 * Maybe the sword needs its own article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anton.Brad (talk • contribs) 10:32, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The sword has its own Commons category and a Wikidata entry. This is a page full of detailed info on the sword. Another page replete with info in French. I have not searched for RSs. --Lambiam 14:33, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * There is this seem to have been a myth and the Prince Imperial’s sword was not Napoleon I.KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:15, 25 June 2020 (UTC)
 * There is this seem to have been a myth and the Prince Imperial’s sword was not Napoleon I.KAVEBEAR (talk) 15:15, 25 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Sources from the fairly extensive bibliography found at the Musée de l'Armée link. Gallica search yields quite a few results. fiveby(zero) 16:13, 25 June 2020 (UTC)