Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 May 11

= May 11 =

Moving troops
In most land borders that I have crossed there appears to be a no-mans land section between the two, often several hundred meters apart. If I wanted to invade a country that was not neighboring to mine, would I be able to send my infantry troops there by entering the no-mans land outside of my country and then marching down the corridor until I reach the country I want to attack? To follow on from this, would other countries attack me? If so why? I have not invaded their national territory? Who polices this area? Do countries take precautions such as land mining the divide? This is a hypothetical question and so I don’t need smart-arses telling me to fly my troops, or that by walking past my neighbor they may be intimidated to the point of attacking me. Thanks86.186.232.80 (talk) 11:00, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It's not a no-man's land, there is an actual border and there are checkpoints operated by the countries, that are close to the border but not physically on top of it (since they can't both be). The strip of land is the space between the two checkpoints.  Any spot within the strip will be in the territory of one country or the other, ignoring philosophical questions about the infinitely thin boundary that forms the actual border.  Also, massing troops near a boarder like you're about to invade is sure to provoke a military response.  2602:24A:DE47:B270:DDD2:63E0:FE3B:596C (talk) 11:12, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * 49 parallel waterton.jpg Per 2602.241..., borders are hypothetically 1-dimensional lines (i.e. without thickness) such that every atom can be said to be either on one side of it or the other (or perhaps split by the border). Some borders have Buffer zones around them, which take various forms, but generally is an ill-defined area outside of a country's border control, but inside their legal borders.  Some of these buffer zones exist as an expedient to separate warring factions, known as a demilitarized zone, such as you find between Cyprus and North Cyprus, or between North Korea and South Korea.  Some are just cleared patches of wilderness which highlight the otherwise undefended border, such as much of the Canada–United States border.  However, not all borders have these.  The Schengen Area, for example, has no border control and functionally, passing between countries in that area is no more notable than passing between US states, Canadian Provinces, or UK Counties.  Some international borders which pass through urban areas also don't have any visible thickness, see for example the one between Derby Line, Vermont and Stanstead, Quebec, which passes through the middle of what would otherwise be considered a single village, the border there has no functional thickness either.  A similar European example exists between Baarle-Hertog, Belgium and Baarle-Nassau, Netherlands. -- Jayron 32 12:34, 11 May 2020 (UTC)




 * You may be interested in South of the Wall, North of the Border: Life in Texas’ No Man’s Land. Alansplodge (talk) 18:58, 11 May 2020 (UTC)
 * What would be the point? Even if there was a no man's land, you could just as easily march across your own territory (and have a better chance of being concealed). Clarityfiend (talk) 06:08, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The OP's plan surely does involve marching across their own territory. There is still the question of how they get to the country they want to invade. If both countries are not landlocked, they could go by sea but this isn't possible when one of the countries is landlocked. I guess they could also go by space in modern times although this would likely violate some UN conventions. Note that the OP specifically said "If I wanted to invade a country that was not neighboring to mine" so we can assume they are thinking of scenarios where the two countries do not share a direct land border but do have land borders with other countries in between. For example, if France wanted to invade Austria or Hungary, or vice versa. Rather than if France wanted to invade Germany or vice versa. Of course you could also make one of the possibly various countries in the way, or at least part of them, your own territory first, as has happened in the past. Or alternatively try to bully or convince the country to let you just pass their territory. Nil Einne (talk) 07:58, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I suspect the OP's plan involves marching along the connected network of no-man's lands from his country to his target without having to invade or cajole anybody along the way. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:E34:EF5E:4640:F80B:23D4:514F:568F (talk) 16:23, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I understand that as I assume everyone else in this thread (except maybe for Clarityfiend) but as already explained before I responded by others, this doesn't work because it is someone else's territory. However that was also besides my point which was mostly that Clarityfiend's question is odd since the question is how you get between countries that are not direct neigbours which may involve marching on your territory but then you still somehow need to get to the other country. This would involve something along the lines of marching on something that is not your territory, making the country your neighbour, using space, or using the oceans if possible. To be clear, even if the there really was something that wasn't anyone's territory in the "no-man's lands", this would still involve marching on something which is not your territory (because it's no one's territory). Hence my confusion over Clarityfiend's question. Nil Einne (talk) 16:49, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you 2A01:E34:EF5E:4640:F80B:23D4:514F:568F for understanding the question...you pass one border post and drive/walk 100 meters to the next border post, between is no mans land. Who polices this? Thanks 86.186.232.80 (talk) 16:55, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * There is no "no mans land" between nations - as mentioned above the border between nations is a one dimensional line, and the border posts / check points are set back from the actual borders for practical reasons. So both nations police the area up to the actual border, on their respective sides. WegianWarrior (talk) 17:14, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, you've effectively doubled the number of watchers, solders, etc. rather than removing them. Matt Deres (talk) 19:37, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * It's perhaps worth mentioning Terra nullius i.e. genuinely unclaimed land. The two examples given there are Bir Tawil (which is actually controlled by Egypt even if not claimed by them) and various pockets along the Serbia-Crotia border (which again, even examples like Liberland are generally theoretically administer by either Crotia and Serbia even if not claimed by them). These are clearly no use for the purpose of the question since they are just pockets here and there, but also illustrate how rare genuinely unclaimed land on the border is. They only arise when 2 countries claim a different border line for various historic, social, political and legal reasons and can't come to an agreement to resolve their dispute and these border lines happen to mutual exclude some territory; and of course neither country wants to mess with what they claim except as part of some sort of negotiated settlement for similar reasons. I'd suggest these examples also show that even if when there is unclaimed land, at least one country still generally has an interest on what goes on there. So if you just fool around with setting up a micronation without harming anyone maybe they'll ignore you. If you start to march troops, well that's liable to be a different story. Nil Einne (talk) 17:07, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * And countries with friendly relations will generally have agreements on border policing, which allow things like law enforcement from one country to cross into the other and detain a suspect near a border. There have been plenty of smart-asses who thought they were the first human to ever get the idea, "What if I do a crime right on an international border? No one can catch me!" If countries have unfriendly relations, the border will often be fortified and the average person will find it hard to get close to. --47.146.63.87 (talk) 22:09, 13 May 2020 (UTC)
 * On the point about "passing between ... UK Counties", some criminals do take advantage of the fact that police forces' areas are generally coterminous with county boundaries, and this can lead to problems with pursuit.  Passing between UK countries (England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Wales) is as easy, as is passing between the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. 2A00:23C7:F782:C601:5893:3EF5:C61D:6DD9 (talk) 10:53, 14 May 2020 (UTC)