Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2020 October 9

= October 9 =

Books and other publications about the post-World War I peace settlement that were published during World War I?
Which books were published during World War I that speculate about the shape of the post-World War I peace settlement? I could think of Arnold J. Toynbee's 1915 book Nationality & the War and another 1915 book by a different author titled The Great Settlement:

https://archive.org/details/greatsettlement00faylgoog

While not a book, there is, of course, also the report about its recommendations for post-World War I Europe and the Middle East (including its recommendations for the new national borders) that The Inquiry published, likely during World War I.

Anyway, though, which additional books or at least published materials that were made during World War I and that speculate about the post-World War I peace settlement are there? Any thoughts on this? Futurist110 (talk) 00:02, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * I found The study of the Great War: a topical outline with copious quotations and reading references (1918) p. 38: "Proposals for Peace; Will this be the last war?", which was written in January 1918. Alansplodge (talk) 08:22, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Thanks; I'll go and check it out! Anything else? Futurist110 (talk) 18:36, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * President Wilson's Fourteen Points were also issued in January 1918. Xuxl (talk) 14:22, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes, I'm already well-aware of them. The reason that I did not specifically mention them here is because they were not a part of a book and/or some other publication. That said, though, if you have any other examples similar to the Fourteen Points, I am nevertheless very willing and very eager to hear them! Futurist110 (talk) 18:36, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Only a month after the War started, Romain Rolland published "Au-dessus de la mêlée" (Above the Fray), which argued the war was a colossally stupid mistake and invited both sides to stand down before it turned into wholescale carnage. No one listened, of course. There's an article on the French Wikipedia, "Tentatives de paix pendant la Première Guerre mondiale" which has some details about additional proposals, none of which amounted to much. Of course, most proponents did not take the time to write a whole book about their proposals, but simply made the main ideas public, as Wilson did with his Fourteen Points. Others tried to advance them through behind-the-scenes diplomacy. Xuxl (talk) 20:32, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * A number of articles about British War Aims were published during the war, including some speeches by David Lloyd George - see for example his The Great Crusade. I would not take any of them too seriously as models for the post-war settlement, as, in common with "war aims" published by any and all of the other belligerents, they were primarily intended as negotiating points and encouragement for the Home Front. As for "why don't we all stop fighting and be nice to each other" works by the like of Rolland, they can be discounted as wishful thinking by people who had no comprehension of how the world works. One might say the same of Wilson's contributions. DuncanHill (talk) 04:34, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez question
If Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez would have been born exactly one or two months later than she was born in real life, would she still be able to run for the US Presidency and US Vice Presidency in 2024? I'm assuming Yes because she would still turn 35 by January 20, 2025, correct? Futurist110 (talk) 02:04, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * The age requirement in Clause 5 of Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution, which lays down the required qualifications for electibility, is generally interpreted as referring to the time of taking office, that is, January 20 of the year 2025, assuming elections will be held in 2024. I think this has not been litigated and tested in court, but since the date of the actual election (by the Electoral College? or else the House/Senate?) is not definitely and definitively fixed in advance, it is hard to see which other interpretation could have binding legal significance. --Lambiam 10:57, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you. So, it looks like my analysis here is correct. Futurist110 (talk) 18:36, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * There is a curious opening in Section 3 of the Twentieth Amendment: "if the President elect shall have failed to qualify [at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President], then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified". This suggests that the US electorate could decide collectively to vote for Kelly Rohrbach to become their President in 2025; her pick for VP, say the actor Chris Warren, would have to serve as acting prez for one day. --Lambiam 20:10, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * What about if their Vice President is also below the age of 35, though? Futurist110 (talk) 21:11, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * In that case it is up to Congress to make a law declaring who shall then act as President until either the President or Vice President elect shall have qualified. --Lambiam 15:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It's to be hoped the Electoral College would not let it come to this. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:40, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Let it come to what? Electing the Rohrbach–Warren 2024 ticket? Should they be unfaithful to the voting results of the individual States? --Lambiam 15:06, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Heym & Sauerwald Elektro-technische Fabrik
Does anyone know what was the business of Heym & Sauerwald Elektro-technische Fabrik? It was active around 1890s and it's address was Wilhelmstrasse 119/120. Owner were W. Heym and R. Sauerwald. Does anyone know who was R. Sauerwald? Was he same as Eduard Rudolph Alexander Sauerwald (1848 Berlin -1907 London)?Horus1927 05:49, 9 October 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Horus1927 (talk • contribs)
 * Not an answer at all, but assuming the address is a Berlin address, apparently the address housed at the same time the publishing company J. Guttentag. The lack of search results for "Heym & Sauerwald" suggests it was a rather small factory, probably dealing only with low-voltage installations and not heavy-duty electrical machinery. --Lambiam 11:23, 9 October 2020 (UTC)


 * If we are looking for the Berlin craftsman from the earlier question, who made instruments for Heinrich Gustav Magnus, Emil du Bois-Reymond and Hermann von Helmholtz, most often "F. Sauerwald" (wonder if this is confusion with de:Franz Sauerwald), the most detailed source found does refer to him as "E. Sauerwald". Brenni is (can only find up to #80 online). Ivan Sechenov supposedly noted his Berlin address here but i am having no luck searching in cryllic. fiveby(zero) 16:09, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * On p. 109 of the book there is a reference to a "mechanic Sauerwald" (in the dative: механику Зауәрвальду) in Berlin (Kanonierstrasse, 43). --Lambiam 19:46, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, an Otto Plath succeeded in our Sauerwald's work at the same address ~1880, annoying there is not enough for an article. fiveby(zero) 14:50, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Greeting with a hand grip
What is the word for this gesture? --95.115.28.241 (talk) 18:47, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * It started as a black thing, and is apparently called Giving dap. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:19, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * That looks like a handshake (dap can take many forms). Many cultures used handshakes before dap was developed in African American communities.  I would call it a handshake, with little if anything to do with African-American culture. -- Jayron 32 18:26, 13 October 2020 (UTC)
 * This article here: highlights some different types of handshakes.  -- Jayron 32 18:28, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Does anyone have Times (UK) access?
Would someone with Times access mind looking at this article to see if it mentions Antonia Gransden's maiden name? I have found two sources that have it as Harrison and one that has it as Morland, and it would be awfully nice to get it straight. Or any thoughts about other places to look? This obit is good for her scholarship but doesn't mention her birth name. Thanks! blameless 21:29, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Best place for a request like this is at WP:RX. RudolfRed (talk) 21:58, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I've moved it there. blameless  22:46, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Both The Times and The Grauniad write that she was born to Stephen Morland and Hilda (née Street). Only snippet view, but this GBS result suggests that at one time she went by the name Antonia Harrison. An earlier marriage? --Lambiam 14:58, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Yes, seems likely to be either that or a stepfather, but I'm uncomfortable adding it without confirmation. For now I've used just her first name in her husband's article (there's another mystery about whether or when they legally divorced, but since neither remarried I am not sure it matters for our purposes). blameless  18:32, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

Asquith or Askwith?
At what point, and for what reasons, did the spellings of Askwith and Asquith diverge? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 22:44, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Per the Oxford Dictionary of Place Names, the village was Ascvid in the Domesday Book (from Old Scandinavian askr + vithr meaning "ash wood"). As the village's article mentions, in the 19th century it was being variously recorded either as "Askwith", or as "Asquith" from which the surname derives. I suspect the latter was a supposedly learnéd rendition based on false etymology, but have no evidence. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.121.162.83 (talk) 11:19, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Several English words starting with 'qu' are inherited via Middle English from Anglo-Norman or have Germanic roots (e.g. queen, quench, quick, quiver), so a 'qu' spelling is not specifically a learned one. Apparently there is a record of one Joseph Asquith who flourished in 1664 (but not much longer). English orthography was still kind of a free-for-all in the 17th century; Johnson's Dictionary was only published in 1755. This was even more true for proper nouns. One spelling may have become ensconced within the Asquith family, while another may have independently become the preferred one for the registrars of the village. The 19th-century occurrences of the spelling Asquith for the village may have been influenced by the already established spelling of the notable family. --Lambiam 14:04, 10 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Some interesting discussions:, , . 2A00:23C6:2403:E900:A9B0:FBB2:63AF:F685 (talk) 11:49, 11 October 2020 (UTC)