Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 August 11

= August 11 =

Size of a Credit Union in Australia
Hello All,

Reading quote "Great Southern Bank (formerly CUA and Credit Union Australia) is a customer-owned bank based in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. As of 2013, it is the largest customer-owned financial institution in Australia.[2] " citing [2] Customer Owned Banking Association, "Australian Mutuals safe & competitive says Treasurer Swan", Customer Owned Banking Association, 2013 link.

There is a more recent report, here >  Monthly authorised deposit-taking institution statistics back-series March 2019 - June 2021 XLSX 1.43 MB Issued 30 July 2021

In this report I see there is Table 1, which, if sorted by column A, and then by any of the columns D to AD, allows to see the statistics for each banking institution. What is the correct metric to sort by? What would be the most accurate update that could be added to the article, based on this source?

Regards, --Gryllida (talk, e-mail) 04:28, 10 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Hi Gryllida, I’m not sure if you can analyze data yourself and enter the results in a Wikipedia article. I think you have to wait and use analyses published in news sources to avoid falling foul of the No original research rules. Here’s a news article that makes the “biggest” claim for Great Southern (as of June 2021, obviously this claim dates easily) and discusses the recent merger: and here’s one (from a better source) that says it has won awards . 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:43, 12 August 2021 (UTC)

Military rank structure of M-26-7
Was there a military rank structure in M-26-7, and if yes, what ranks were used?--2A02:8109:BD40:65C4:94A9:F0F8:DB0C:AE09 (talk) 13:09, 10 August 2021 (UTC)


 * There is a lengthy preview of Comandante Che: Guerrilla Soldier, Commander, and Strategist, 1956-1967, but no mention of military ranks beyond a few key commanders, as far as I can see. Alansplodge (talk) 17:57, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm mostly interested in low- and mid-level ranks, like "private", "corporal", and "sergeant". Did M-26-7 use a hierarchical rank structure at this level at all, or where they just all "fighters" in the revolution? Did they adopt terms from the regular army, or did they come up with more revolutionary sounding rank names?--2A02:8109:BD40:65C4:94A9:F0F8:DB0C:AE09 (talk) 07:55, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * We do have an article on Ranks of the Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces, which has both historical and current rank structures, but I don't know if it goes back to the M-26-7 movement or to a more recent time. May be a start for your research, perhaps some of the sources that article uses will lead somewhere.  -- Jayron 32 10:46, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Children's Book series from 1980s
So, this is a really tall order, but I wanted to ask if anyone remembers a specific children's book set from the 1980s about living life and life tips. The set was a series of about a dozen or so books, and they had hand drawings inside them with various scenarios that kids might face. I remember there was one about getting sick, another where a little girl is robbed at night of her purse (the thief says "give me everything you got!") and also one where a boy is bullied where the bully says he is going to get him but then plays with his brother who also says hes going to get him in a less threatening way. There was also a whole book about punishments and how parents didn't like to spank but sometimes had to (imagine trying to sell that today). The books came in a boxed set and I have been trying for years to find out what the name of this series was so I can give it to my own children. Can anyone help?? -KTcup82 (talk) 21:13, 10 August 2021 (UTC)
 * These are so tough! Best I can suggest is you follow the links in this to the three of four biggest "help me find a book" forums and have a go there - your question will get more eyes on it and more specialists in old books, than here. Luck! 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:03, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It was very similar to "Time-Life: A Child's First Library of Learning" but it was made by a different company and had drawings and cartoons rather than actual photographs. I have looked everywhere for some trace of this series, but have always come up empty. -KTcup82 (talk) 18:13, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Possibly Childcraft: The How & Why Library? --Viennese Waltz 10:55, 13 August 2021 (UTC)

It looks like it might be the "Help Me Be Good" book series. I did more research and saw some very familiar titles and it looks like the book set has been upgraded over the years with modern drawings and pictures as well. The full book set is very expensive, but I ordered some stand alone books to see if i was correct. -KTcup82 (talk) 20:14, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Something about trouble. Or problems. "The Trouble with Memory", "The Problem with Envy", something with something like that, I'm getting. Does that ring a bell? Each book had a main solid colour? InedibleHulk (talk) 11:24, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The last word was the only one that changed, in prominent letters. I vaguely recall "Responsibility" being mainly dark blue or purple, either that or Respect. There were a few R-words...Googling these is hard! InedibleHulk (talk) 11:41, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * A-ha, Joy Berry! Let's Talk About...X. At least that answers my question, thanks for the reminder! And yes, HMBG was the other one. All coming back to me now, I want to buy them all, too. InedibleHulk (talk) 11:46, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

- I think you got it! The "Let's Talk About" series looks a lot like what I remember as a girl. I just ordered a few of the "Help Me Be Good" books but will have to get a hold of this other series to compare. -KTcup82 (talk) 20:09, 14 August 2021 (UTC)
 * You did most of the work, so you got it. What I did was misread "looks like it might be" as "looks like", thereby Googling in vain, oblivious to the obviously superior search term right in front of me. Anyway, the important thing is we both know better now! 100% positive that my boyhood included both series, none of the others she wrote, and they were similar enough to blend together as just "those books" to 1982 kids like us. I'm probably not going to buy any, after all, so let me know if the pictures are as fun to look at as we remember! And in case you saw my edit summary yesterday, I meant ValueTales, not ValuTales (nobody remembers ValuTales). InedibleHulk (talk) 04:46, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

place of birth of prophet muhammad
I want to know the place of birth of prophet muhammad. it is in present day mecca or petra. -- 22:46, 10 August 2021 182.187.51.14


 * Our article Muhammad says that he was born in Mecca around the year 570. MinorProphet (talk) 01:34, 11 August 2021 (UTC) Actually I was named after a major prophet, but I only discovered this after choosing my username.


 * This probably has something to do with the idea that Petra was somehow the original target of the qibla, which is one of the various proposals of the revisionist school of Islamic studies. Unfortunately, it was dumb enough as an academic argument, but now it's sort of filtered out into the regular world and become a weird conspiracy theory. Adam Bishop (talk) 01:49, 11 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The Petra qibla theory is kind of the converse of the theories of Kamal Salibi... AnonMoos (talk) 07:14, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Musical term
In popular music, a refrain is a repeated line or lines that come between the verses. But what if there's a section between the verses that is melodically identical each time, but has a completely different lyric each time? Is that a refrain, or perhaps a chorus? If it's neither of those, what would it be called? Many thanks, --Viennese Waltz 15:59, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It can be thought of simply as part of the verse. Georgia guy (talk) 16:00, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * That's a good suggestion, but the lines are longer and have a different rhyme scheme from the rest of the verse. To me, it seems like it ought to be distinct from the verse in some way. --Viennese Waltz 16:06, 11 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure it's what you're looking for, but try post-chorus. Alansplodge (talk) 17:56, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

In classical music, I remember the term ritornello, though the article about it describes a narrower concept. 2602:24A:DE47:BA60:8FCB:EA4E:7FBD:4814 (talk) 02:55, 14 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Could you give us an example of such a song? --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 19:48, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Could kings duel each other?
Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 21:04, 11 August 2021 (UTC)


 * There have been royal or quasi-royal single combats. I would tend to be doubtful about duels in the usual sense, on personal points of honor... AnonMoos (talk) 23:28, 11 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Were you instead supposed to invade the other king's territory till you were satisfied? Or was that not a good enough reason to get some of your troops killed even back then? (as a last straw that ends a cold peace sure but could most of the reason for a war be wanting to duel but you're too important to risk?) Or did the issue never come up? Sagittarian Milky Way (talk) 01:14, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Champion warfare is worth checking out, but the article implies that its just myth and fiction. 2603:6081:1C00:1187:F9C0:73F9:B50D:E537 (talk) 02:09, 12 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Kings did participate in medieval tournaments, such as jousting, though I am unsure if any kings ever jousted against each other. I thought I had recalled such a joust between Henry VIII of England and Francis I of France at the Field of the Cloth of Gold event, but I can't find any information on it, and I may be misremembering.  -- Jayron 32 10:58, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * King Robert the Bruce killed Sir Henry de Bohun in personal combat at the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314, but I can't think of an example of king against king. Alansplodge (talk) 11:39, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Kings often led their troops in battle; Richard III of England was supposedly killed in personal combat with Rhys ap Thomas according to some accounts. -- Jayron 32 12:17, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Also Harold II of England and James IV of Scotland, but neither were actually fighting with other kings at the time. Alansplodge (talk) 12:39, 12 August 2021 (UTC)


 * Two examples of royal combat are mentioned in a similar AskHistorians thread . (1) Between a king and a crown prince: Naresuan – “King Naresuan is known in Thailand for his 1593 elephant duel with Crown Prince Mingyi Swa.” And (2) Between two Japanese daimyos: Battles_of_Kawanakajima – “Uesugi Kenshin himself burst into the headquarters, attacking Takeda Shingen who, unprepared for such an event, parried with his signalling fan as best as he could [until retainers arrived].” The thread also claims that per Justin (historian), King Alexander of Macedon charged King Porus of India directly at the Battle of the Hydaspes, but the account in the wiki article is different. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 14:26, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * There's probably some argument to be made as to whether daimyo represent the equivalent of royalty or nobility, i.e. whether they are the equivalent of Kings/Emperors, or the equivalent of Dukes/Counts. If we lower our standards to duels/personal combat between lesser nobility, I suspect we could find numerous examples.  -- Jayron 32 17:46, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * :) A king is a duke with an army and a navy? :) It does get fuzzy in certain times and places, that's true! 70.67.193.176 (talk) 18:03, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Touché. -- Jayron 32 18:49, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * No, because they always have to have at least one empty square between them at all times. --Trovatore (talk) 18:06, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Though not a duel as such King Henry VIII of England and King Francis I of France did meet at the Field of the Cloth of Gold. I thought I had reasd that they took part in a joust against each other. Our article does not explicitly state that so perhaps my memory is faulty or research has come up with new info. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 19:13, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the repeat info as I missed s post above. We do have the same question about whether they had a personal jousting encounter though. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 19:16, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * "At the Field of Cloth of Gold Henry and François jousted on the same team so that they did not have to face each other".  Alansplodge (talk) 19:26, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Good find! -- Jayron 32 21:32, 12 August 2021 (UTC)
 * They may not have jousted together, but they did wrestle (at Henry's insistence-you can just imagine the looks of apprehension from the diplomats). Henry was thrown.  Curdle (talk) 06:01, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks to both and  for their research. It is nice to have that info added to my dusty old memory banks. MarnetteD&#124;Talk 20:33, 13 August 2021 (UTC)


 * The Art of Heraldry reproduces an illustration from the Tournament Book of King René d'Anjou, showing the dukes of Brittany and Bourbon charging each other on horses with swords raised, circa 144x. French Dukes were pretty autonomous at the time. Of course I don't know whether this records an actual joust or a hypothetical one. —Tamfang (talk) 01:19, 14 August 2021 (UTC)