Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 December 12

= December 12 =

JFK tapes on YouTube transcribed?
Anybody know where I can find all the transcribed JFK White House tapes (particularly Cuban Missile Crisis)? Searching on YouTube there's short clips that are transcribed but few transcribed complete tapes. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 05:10, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Here, for one. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 06:01, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks! Hoping for a more extensive collection but appreciate these. 84.70.169.190 (talk) 15:47, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

I cannot date someone without an indonesian section dating page article
On the article page dating in wikipedia there is only india but not indonesia. Then i cannot believe that theres a rule in india for dating someone. But in i donesia the current fate of dating is uncertain. India is like indonesia India came first before indonesia in term of alphabetical listing Then how in the world that indonesia is the aanarchy haven for dating. Aw man. India is only 3 syllable word but indonesia is even more syllable with 5 syllables at least. Then how can i date someone in indonesia by providing indonesia section in dating page on wikipedia. Please someone can contribute article dating. 182.0.178.122 (talk) 07:57, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Best of luck with your love life. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:07, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Am I the only one who's rather confused about what exactly the OP is asking? Eliyohub (talk) 09:51, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I think a better question would be, does anyone understand it? --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  10:42, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * It seems pretty clear to me. The OP is asking why there is no section about Indonesia in Dating. Having said that, I'm 99% sure the OP is a banned user. --Viennese Waltz 11:15, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The question has a familiar ring to it, but I'm not sure from how far back. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:21, 12 December 2021 (UTC)


 * If it is true that Indonesia is the "anarchy haven for dating", then there are no societal rules or norms, so just follow your heart. In general, it is rather sorry if someone has to rely on Wikipedia in order to be able to date someone. --Lambiam 11:53, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Rowland Hill Berkeley


I am trying to trace the lineage and birth date of Rowland Hill Berkeley (pictured), who was Lord Mayor of Birmingham, England, in 1904-1905 (he apparently died in office). He was either descended from (grandson?), or was a close relation (nephew? great nephew?) of postal reformer Sir Rowland Hill (1795-1879). Any other info, such as an obituary, would also be useful - my searches have not been fruitful.

Also, RHB's grandson was Bill Mason (director) (1915-2002) - who was the intermediate person?

this seems to be your bailiwick; can you help, please? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 12:16, 12 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I've found some articles on British Newspaper Archive, emailing now. DuncanHill (talk) 12:55, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Received, thank you. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:32, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Lots of information at Bill Mason (director) confirming descent from Rowland Hill.  Nicholas Berkeley Mason is a drummer with Pink Floyd.   His father is Rowland Hill Berkeley Mason (b. 9.11.15) known as Bill Mason (d. 17.1.02).   There are various correspondence addresses for Nicholas.   Sarah Mason worked for Bill Mason Films Ltd and was born February 1919.   Obituaries at  and .   He left wife Sally, a son, three daughters and eleven grandchildren.   Full genealogy at . 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 13:50, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Rowland Hill Berkeley Mason (b. 9.11.15) was a posthumous child, the Lord Mayor died in April 1905. DuncanHill (talk) 13:56, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Thank you. The ethnicelebs site is useful, but sadly not a reliable source; nether is the source it cites, familysearch. Also, I'd like to verify and clarify the "descended from Rowland Hill" claim made in Bill's obituary in the Guardian. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:30, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * (ecx2) Rowland Hill Berkeley married Eliza and had two daughters.  His wife died in her nineties during the war .   His daughter Elsie Ann Berkeley was Bill Mason's mother. 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 14:42, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * In future please don't restore a comment of mine that I have removed. DuncanHill (talk) 14:45, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * There's sourcing for the descent from the postmaster general at Bill Mason (director). 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 14:48, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Again, it is that source which I wish to verify and clarify. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:03, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * ...and please don't indent my comments so that they appear to reply to someone other than who I was addressing. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:03, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * There was a "Rowland Hill Berkeley" born in Birmingham in 1849, described as a 22-year old Grocer in the 1871 Census. He died on 13 April 1905 in Birmingham. Still described as a Grocer on his death and was the Lord Mayor of Birmingham. He may be the Rowland H Berkeley aged 51 in the 1901 Census although he is described as a "Steel Toy Maker" with a wife Eliza and two daughters Elsie A aged 18 and Kate aged 16. MilborneOne (talk) 17:21, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * His parents are John Berkeley a Coal Dealer and Ann Hill both from Worcestershire. Ann Hill was born around 1805 but not listed in Thomas Wright Hill as a sister of Rowland Hill so perhaps a more distant relation. Doesnt appear close enough to mention without some reliable sourcing. MilborneOne (talk) 17:26, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * One of the obituaries provided by User:DuncanHill has RHB as both a grocer and owner of a steel goods factory, so that fits. Many thanks. Can you substantiate Elsie A as the mother of Bill Mason (birth name Rowland Hill Berkeley Mason), please? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:44, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Elsie A Berkeley married "Edward D Mason" in 1911. In the 1939 Register he is listed a a "Director Scientific Apparatus Manufacturer". Children include "Rowland Hill Berkeley Mason" born 9 Nov 1915. MilborneOne (talk) 17:55, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, Rowland Hill wasn't postmaster general.  I was getting confused with Anthony Trollope, who had post office connections.   Descent from him is discussed at .   His only son had various children with "Torrens" as a middle name.   Here  we learn that he assisted in the colonisation of South Australia - many of his family emigrated there.   Hill worked with Robert Torrens, whose son Robert Richard Torrens designed the Torrens system of land registration introduced there (that article looks as if it needs another redirect). 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 18:32, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Article written: Rowland Hill Berkeley. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 22:00, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

Longest lifespan of anyone who could have become President
Jimmy Carter is 97. However, Bob Dole recently died at 98, so Carter is not the longest-lived person who could have become President. Are you wondering what I mean?? Bob Dole could have become President in either of 2 ways:


 * 1) If Ford had won the 1976 election and died while in office, Dole would have become the 39th President.
 * 2) If Clinton had been defeated by Dole in the 1996 election, Dole would have become the 43rd President.

However, if my knowledge is right, it is John Nance Garner who has the longest lifespan of anyone who could have become President. Specifically:

If Franklin Roosevelt had died between 1933 and 1941, Garner would have become the 33rd President.

Can you disprove me?? If so, who has the record lifespan of anyone who could have become President?? (This can be either by winning the election or by succeeding by the elected President's death; I did examples of both kinds in the case of Dole. I did the latter in the case of Garner.) Georgia guy (talk) 17:02, 12 December 2021 (UTC)


 * If Thelma Sutcliffe of Omaha, Nebraska., had decided to run for President in 2020 and had been elected, she would now be a President with a lifespan of slightly over 115 years. --Lambiam 19:22, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * However, if Sarah Knauss had run for President and won in 1996, she'd have died in office at 119 years old. -- Jayron 32 03:39, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Clearly the intent was to ask only about people who were candidates for, or who actually were, president or vice-president. Having said that, I'm not interested enough to attempt to answer it definitively. --184.144.99.241 (talk) 05:56, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * If that is the intent, scanning List of vice presidents of the United States returns only Garner, as GG said. (Passed away just a few days from turning 99, therefore had a lifespan a few months longer than Bob Dole). List of United States presidential candidates doesn’t contain birthdates so it would be up to Georgia guy to check everyone on that list one by one. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:07, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Taking those who were one step away from being president (either candidate for president or elected as vice president), you missed Alf Landon, candidate for the Republican Party in 1936 (lost from FDR), who died at an age of 100 years and 33 days. That's more than Garner's 98 years and 350 days. There's also Strom Thurmond, who was candidate for the States' Rights Democratic Party in 1948 and died at an age of 100 years and 203 days. I don't know if you consider him a serious candidate, but he won 4 states. PiusImpavidus (talk) 17:23, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

When and how was the Kachwaha dynasty established?
When and how was the Kachwaha dynasty established? -- Karsan Chanda (talk) 07:50, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * See Kachwaha. 2A00:23C7:FB83:7A00:3D0B:D1B9:2F8D:B720 (talk) 18:47, 12 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Courtesy link: Kachhwaha. There's also a mention of its origins in Kachchhapaghata dynasty. Alansplodge (talk) 18:49, 12 December 2021 (UTC)