Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 December 15

= December 15 =

How to determine the official publisher of a book
I'm trying to keep a reading list so that I can keep track of the books I read. One issue I've come across is determining the publisher of the book I'm reading. For example, I am correctly reading this book. Which is the definitive publisher I should be using for my list: Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group, Schocken Books, or Penguin Random House? They're all listed as the publisher, but I have to pick one. What is the general rule in situations like this? -- Puzzledvegetable Is it teatime already?  02:26, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * What does it say on the spine? DuncanHill (talk) 02:43, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The book says Schocken Books, but I can't find it listed under that publisher anywhere online. Schocken Books is an imprint of Penguin Random House, but PRH's website lists it under their Knopf Doubleday Publishing Group imprint and that's the name that comes up on all the online databases. My problem isn't really about this book in particular. Is there a systematic way to officially determine which publisher name the book should be cited with? The name that appears in the actual book can just be a "brand name" used by the actual publisher. -- Puzzledvegetable Is it teatime already?  02:46, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, a book may appear under different imprints in different countries, even if printed from the same plates in the same printworks. Perhaps the idea of a "definitive publisher" breaks down under modern business structures. In this case I would suggest going with the "top-level" of the available options, Penguin Random House. DuncanHill (talk) 02:52, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The name of the publisher which appears on the title or copyright page is the official publisher. In this case, Shocken Books, New York (clicking on 'Look inside' in the link above.) The copyright page states: "Published in the United States by Schocken Books, a division of Random House...and in Canada by Random House of Canada...Penguin Random House companies." The 'official' publisher is therefore Schocken Books, and there is no question about it. If this is the actual book you are reading, there is no reference to Knopf Doubleday on the copyright page at all. It doesn't particularly matter who owns Schocken: PRH is a huge international publishing group, encompassing tens if not hundreds of previously independent publishing firms. The printed information in a specific physical book (or a scan of it) defines the publisher. Because of copyright issues, huge quantities of books with the same content have been published in the UK and the US by different publishers by agreement, and you should go with whatever it says on the title or copyright page, not a database. Even so, the book's Worldcat entry (click on 'View all editions and formats) exclusively lists Schocken in the US, first published by Hodder & Stoughton in the UK. MinorProphet (talk) 14:56, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Sulla's relationships - censorship
Dear,

I noticed that before the page on the Roman statesman Sulla contained information that during his life and retirement he lived together with another man Metrobius.

But somehow this has now been censored out. Although other aspects of his life (and speculations about it) are dealt with in great detail, there is not even a mention as a "rumour" even though it is directly mentioned (and commented upon) by two classic authors. The last few years, it has re-appeared then disappeared again from the Sulla article; apparently some people do not want any mention of a possible LGBT-perspective for a great Roman statesman ? This is censorship.

It seems to me the section about Metrobius could be appropriately mentioned as a whole (or at least referenced) in the article about Sulla. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.224.117.63 (talk) 03:19, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Here's the crucial edit. Seems some editor objected to taking Plutarch's word for it. Card Zero  (talk) 04:52, 15 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The qualification "debauched" violates the NPOV policy. I hear Sulla lament from the border of the Styx, Non tali auxilio. While we should not believe Plutarch on his word, the material can be included when properly attributed: "According to Plutarch, Sulla remained ...". --Lambiam 13:15, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

1968 News archives
If we give look @ Wikipedia articles about (other than war time) Mass sexual assault those seem to be mostly post 2000. Is that because access to news cause of internet became easier afterwards?

Any ways I came across a 1968 mass assault case from Rabindra Sarobar Stadium, Calcutta. I am looking for help in finding out sources from 1968 / 1969 news archives. Need to have date and investigation related information.

Non communist polity seem to put allegations upon then communist home minister Jyoti Basu for allegedly condoning the attack as activism of proletariat. Did he really make any such statement then or was just a political targeting by opposition also needs to be found out from old archival sources from Indian English / Bengali / Hindi news sources of those times. And also if any UK news papers had taken note of the incidence then.

And also is there any mention in biography of Ashok Kumar the Indian actor, whose musical night could not take place and angry mob took opportunity to mass molestate unrelated women.

Thanks and regards

&#32;Bookku, &#39;Encyclopedias &#61; expanding information &#38; knowledge&#39; (talk) 16:06, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Jewish names in Israel and elsewhere
Why Jewish given names and surnames in Israel are often somewhat different from Ashkenazi and Sephardi names? E.g. Benjamin Netanyahu vs Sheindlia-Sura Solomoniak and various Rabinovichs? My ORish takeaway from Israeli_Jews is that possibly distinct Israeli given names and surnames evolved from Ashkenazi majority and Aliyah emigrants. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 23:25, 15 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Well, those names differ because they belong to different people. Is there a contrast in style that's obvious to you though not to me? --Tamfang (talk) 01:28, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
 * See Netanyahu (surname); the name is of likely Ashkenazi origin and from before the establishment of Israel. Zoozaz1 (talk) 03:07, 16 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Some people did rename themselves when immigrating or assimilating: Golda Meyerson to Golda Meir, Rafael Kaminsky to Rafael Eitan, Eleazar Sukenik was the father of Yigael Yadin, etc. AnonMoos (talk) 03:27, 16 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Here's an academic paper exploring some aspects of changing surnames in 20th century Israel. Jewish onomastics covers over 3,000 years of documented history and is made up of two main periods of onomastic creativity.... The second period is the modern age,... a period of political, linguistic, and cultural renewal, (in which) the revitalization of the Hebrew language generated the renewal of Hebrew names... 70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:37, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

This article, which unpicks a mystery around Menachem Begin Hebraizing his name, mentions several other Israeli politicians and their name changes too. A lot of post-Holocaust Israeli immigrants chose to Hebraize their names - first names and surnames. Some for the convenience of others ("Mieczysław Biegun" isn't easy for non-Poles to pronounce, even when transliterated into Hebrew characters), some as a metaphorical ditching of the world of antisemitism that had been so cruel to them and their families. Indeed, many Jews had 'joke' names foisted on them by antisemitic authorities when surnames - one branch of my own family was dubbed "Grossbard" ("big beard"). I can't much about this stuff on Wikipedia, though I've looked in some likely places, but Jewish surname is a start. You might also reflect on the very similar process that has taken place with westernising of names - see this account as an example:. --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 17:27, 19 December 2021 (UTC)