Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 June 26

= June 26 =

Suspensory Act 1914
I am looking for the text of the Suspensory Act 1914 (4 & 5 Geo. 5 c. 88), thanks. DuncanHill (talk) 18:27, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Either this or this should help you. There are some naming inconsistences, so I'm not 100% sure it's the right text. Personuser (talk) 18:51, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks - it's not on legislation.gov.uk. The Archive.org link is for the Bill (i.e. before it was passed into law), it's possible it was amended in passage but I seem to recall it wasn't. DuncanHill (talk) 19:53, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * This should be the right one (you may have noticed that legislation isn't really my field). Personuser (talk) 21:41, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * That's ideal - many thanks. You're clearly better at searching Archive.org than I am! DuncanHill (talk) 22:02, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Alleged "Welsh Cemeteries Act 1908"
A couple of our articles mention a Welsh Cemeteries Act 1908. I can find no real evidence for such an Act existing, it certainly does not appear in Public and General Acts for the year. Can anyone identify a likely contender, or is it something someone made up one day? Thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 23:35, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
 * One of the items was posted in 2008. The one who posted it,, is still active, so you might ask them about it. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 00:19, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * This page, on a website hosted by the Welsh Government in collaboration with Westlaw UK, lists a "Welsh Cemeteries Act 1908" without any further information. The link supporting the claim in our articles is thoroughly dead, being to a long purged google cache entry involving a website www.visitnewportcity.co.uk of which I find no trace. This does not appear to have been a reliable source. Essentially the same claim is found here (also non-RS), predating its appearance in Wikipedia. The Welsh Government website offers no link for inquiries. Thomas Watkin, author of The Legal History of Wales, has contributed to the site and may be able to offer more information ([mailto:watkintg@cardiff.ac.uk mailto:watkintg@cardiff.ac.uk]). --Lambiam 12:52, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks - it does not appear in the index of Watkin (sent to me via WP:RX), nor are there any results in searching the snippet view on Google books. Nothing in, nothing in any of my extensive Lloyd George library (given LlG's earlier triumph in the Llanfrothen Burial Case it's hard to imagine him not having said something about such an Act), nothing in any work on Liberal Party history that I have. No mention in Hansard. The alleged title sounds wrong as well - the Burial Grounds (Wales) Act would be more likely (and I have searched for that and variations thereof too). I rather think this is a case where we can, for once, take absence of evidence as evidence of absence. Acts of Parliament do not simply disappear without a trace. DuncanHill (talk) 14:36, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Perhaps there is a typo in the year, while the official name of the act is also different. (A fuller name for "The Welsh Intermediate Education Act, 1889" is "The Welsh Intermediate and Technical Education Act, 1889", referred to in 1914 in Wales). --Lambiam 19:40, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The Cemeteries Clauses Act 1847 is sometimes called simly "Cemeteries Act 1847", mostly overseas. Our act is also mentioned here, I thought of an eventual 8/3 confusion, but the lack of other references to it seems still suspicious. Personuser (talk) 20:42, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * I've tried, but also failed, to find any better sources for the edit I made in 2008. Ghmyrtle (talk) 21:48, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
 * PS: Perhaps there was some confusion with the Welsh Church Act 1914 - but, I've no idea how or why the confusion occurred.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:13, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
 * The 1914 Act was already presented in 1909, although it failed before the Lords. Funding was an issue which may have been commented following the previous years. In any event, the 1908 date is something which was still led alive before 2008:   --Askedonty (talk) 22:53, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * I can't find anything similar-sounding in the House of Commons Journals for 1908, or in the Parliamentary Papers for that year. A bill was brought forward to affect registration of births and deaths, but it makes no reference to Wales specifically.
 * If underlying legislation of some form does exist, perhaps it is a garbled reference to a) some kind of SI - the "Welsh Cemeteries Regulations"? Unfortunately there isn't any index online of SIs from that year that I can find. The other possibility is b) some kind of Church ordinance - legislation around cemeteries would seem to be within the scope of the modern Synod, and the CoE was still established in Wales then, but was there anything in existence in 1908 with the same powers? Andrew Gray (talk) 16:48, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
 * There were no Statutory Instruments in 1908, there were Statutory Rules and Orders, we have a very incomplete list List of Statutory Rules and Orders of the United Kingdom. Before 1919 any changes to Church governance were made by Act of Parliament. DuncanHill (talk) 15:02, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The only thing I can find in the London Gazette in 1908 mentioning "Wales and Monmouthshire" was the Royal Commission on the Ancient and Historical Monuments of Wales, but that was a commission under the Royal Sign Manual, and not really anything to do with cemeteries (except insomuch as they might be archaeological remains). DuncanHill (talk) 15:17, 2 July 2021 (UTC)