Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 March 23

= March 23 =

The Russian Revolution of 1905 and republicanism
Does anyone here know just how many of the revolutionaries in the Russian Revolution of 1905 actually wanted to transform the Russian Empire into a republic as opposed to a constitutional monarchy? Futurist110 (talk) 03:30, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Did you actually read the article you link? The revolution of 1905 was not a neatly planned thing. It was a series of social movements that almost toppled the tsarist regime, taking place in a country that had just emerged from serfdom and suffered a humiliating defeat against Japan in the Russo-Japanese War. What is considered the revolution's first event, Bloody Sunday, was a worker's march, organized by revolutionary labor leaders - not really ardent monarchists. There was violent labor strife all over - again, not a sign of constitutional monarchists looking for peaceful evolution. The mutiny on the Potemkin was about dreadful living conditions for enlisted sailors. The fact that the fallout of the whole affair was a move towards a slightly more representative form of monarchy should not be taken as a sign that it was the original objective of the leaders of the various social movements that constituted the revolution. Xuxl (talk) 13:56, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Excellent analysis; thank you! It's just that I was wondering about this because things appear to have become calmer and less tense in Russia after Nicholas II actually agreed to the October Manifesto, even though of course Nicholas was never fully sincere about actually fulfilling the promises that he made in it. Futurist110 (talk) 23:51, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

The abolition of the Ottoman Empire and the Caliphate and the 1947 partition of India: Is there any connection between these things?
Is there any connection between the abolition of the Ottoman Empire, including the abolition of the Caliphate, and the subsequent 1947 partition of India? I know that British India previously had the Khilafat Movement, but exactly what relation and connection did this movement actually have to the subsequent 1947 partition of India? Futurist110 (talk) 03:46, 23 March 2021 (UTC)


 * It had a lot to do with Ghandi and the Congress movement being outmaneuvered by Jinnah and the Muslim League in the immediately preceding years. The Quit India Movement no doubt had lofty motives, but it also had a significant element of stupidity, since the British were not going to quit India in the middle of a World War, and they were in fact likely to be more ruthless as colonial masters when they were fighting for their own national survival.  By not participating in "Quit India", the Muslim League emerged after WW2 with greatly enhanced influence... AnonMoos (talk) 07:20, 23 March 2021 (UTC)


 * A difference between the two is that the Young Turks and their successors wanted a secular state, whereas the Muslim League wanted an Islamic one. Alansplodge (talk) 09:11, 23 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Jinnah himself was famously an alcohol-drinker, and more concerned about Hindu domination of Muslims than about Islamic government. Islamic government only emerged in stages in Pakistan, from the 1950s through the 1980s (see Islamization in Pakistan).  It did not emerge fully-formed in 1948. AnonMoos (talk) 13:56, 23 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Yep, Muhammad Ali Jinnah could best be described as a pork-and-wine Muslim! ;) Futurist110 (talk) 20:58, 23 March 2021 (UTC)


 * If the Khilafat movement had been successful and the caliph had been restored to his former role, the forces leading to the partitioning of India decades later would probably have been equally strong. --Lambiam 15:05, 23 March 2021 (UTC)


 * So, it would have had no effect on the ultimate partition of India, other than any effects that pertain to the butterfly effect? Futurist110 (talk) 20:58, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Access to the Diary of Hannah Szenes
Hi! I've been looking online for Hannah Szenes's diary. If I can find it in any format, I will download it and convert it to a MOBI file to read on my Kindle.

I found |a book on archive.org that includes her writings and hundreds of pages of her diary, but it isn't easy to access (I tried downloading an Adobe eReader and it failed to open the protected files)

One hint is that I was able to find out that her entire collection has been digitized

However, I'm also unable to figure out how to access that digital collection.

Any ideas? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zac Romick (talk • contribs) 08:35, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The book above seems to still under copyright so it's unlikely you'll be able to find it online for free in a legitimate way except from a library. archive.org seems to have made it available under their controversial digitised ebook programme. If you borrow it for 14 days (archive.org is a bit confusing, but you will probably need to borrow it for 1 hour then you will get an option to borrow it for 14 days), you will get access to a PDF and ePub protected by ADEPT DRM. You will be able to view them on a computer with Adobe Digital Editions properly installed, or any smart phone or tablet with some reader that supports ADEPT DRM (there should be options for Android, Windows, iOS and Chromebooks [//help.overdrive.com/en-us/9984.html]), as well an an ebook reader that supports ADEPT DRM like a Kobo or really nearly any ebook reader besides Amazon's ones. Or to put it a different way, if you don't mind using Overdrive or other such software and you want to read it on a device that isn't either free software only (i.e. opposed to DRM) like a computer running Debian, or a Kindle eink ereader; you'll probably be able to read the ePub or PDF from archive.org. (I'm sure there are also some obscure OSes or devices without support, especially cheap Chinese devices.)  You're SOL with a Kindle, blame Amazon and DRM. While there are ways to remove ADEPT DRM, doing so for books you don't own even if it's for interoperability reasons seems questionable and IMO is not something you should expect help with on the RD. Especially since despite the annoyances of DRM, the main reason why Kindle's don't support ADEPT DRM is clearly not because they can't or it costs too much or they have some philosophical opposition to DRM. They just want control.  You could look and see if it's available at your local library, however outside the US you'll probably have the same problem. Library loans will use ePubs or PDFs with ADEPT DRM, which Kindle's can support. I believe Overdrive does support Kindles in the US, so if you have access to ebooks borrowing from a US option you might have options.  If you can't get it from a library, you'll need to buy it. It's available in ebook form on various sites [//www.kobo.com/nz/en/ebook/hannah-senesh] including Amazon [//www.amazon.com/Hannah-Senesh-Diary-First-Complete-ebook/dp/B01HT6C0Y6/] although ebook licencing being how it is, I can't guarantee it's available for you.  As for the other material, where did you read that her entire collection has been digitised? The source you linked to doesn't say that. It says "" (emphasis added) which is a very important distinction. Since the source is from November 2020, there's a good chance "will be" remains correct unless you have a source which says the process has been completed. In any case, your best bet to obtain access would be to ask the National Library of Israel.  Nil Einne (talk) 11:39, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * BTW, I had a quick look at the archive.org ePub, and as you may expect for a more complicated work with some parts not in English etc, the OCR can be a bit hit and miss. The PDF version wouldn't have these problems but of a fixed layout format and especially a scan for something like this is also unnecessary and IMO partly defeats a key advantage of using an ebook reader in the first place. Frankly since there is a proper ebook available and this isn't some obscure hard to access work, you're IMO much better of getting that than trying to get something from archive.org. Nil Einne (talk) 12:05, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Carriage stripper
This article references his father was a "carriage stripper." Is there a Wikipedia article on this job/task? Engineerchange (talk) 14:26, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Searching for anything that includes the word stripper leads to some interesting places on the web, but it does appear that "stripper" was a kind of harvester (see here or here), so possibly the article simply meant that he was a farmer that operated such a device? Jokey options aside, my initial guess would have been someone whose job was to unload or possibly disassemble carriages. Matt Deres (talk) 17:18, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * So a coachman? Or is there a more specific title here? Engineerchange (talk) 17:43, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I did a poor job reading, so likely closer to a farm hand (but, given the times and place, more likely a slave) who was able to operate the "stripper harvester" machinery. Got it; thanks! Engineerchange (talk) 18:42, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * That's only a guess on my part, based on what came up. It could well be unrelated. Matt Deres (talk) 18:54, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the terminology in Virginia/USA appears to be more commonly reaper and not stripper, which apparently has more Australian origins? Don't get much googling "carriage reaper" along those lines, though. Engineerchange (talk) 19:00, 23 March 2021 (UTC)


 * I believe this is a rail trade. Found in the The New South Wales Industrial Gazette: Volume 10 (1917):
 * "Assistants to carriage trimmers, 9s. Od. per day. (Assistants to carriage trimmers shall mean men employed in removing and stripping the interior trimmings of carriages, and taking the materials to and from the railway carriages)".
 * I can definitely see this. I see some examples of carriage trimming as a profession when searching on Wikipedia; I imagine "carriage stripper" is just an infrequent alternative phrasing of "carriage trimmer", which in common tongue we would just call an upholsterer. Thanks, all! Engineerchange (talk) 19:22, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * See . 146.199.206.3 (talk) 21:00, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Settler colonialism that was at least largely done for the purposes of reducing separatism and weakening separatist movements?
Which cases of settler colonialism were at least largely done for the purposes of reducing separatism and weakening separatist movements? So far, I could think of:


 * Nursultan Nazarbayev's decision to move Kazakhstan's capital to Nur-Sultan (previously Astana) in 1997 in order to increase the Kazakh presence in northern Kazakhstan and thus weaken secessionist and separatist sentiments among Kazakhstani Russians in northern Kazakhstan.
 * The Pashtun colonization of northern Afghanistan, which was done in large part to increase the Pashtun presence in northern Afghanistan (especially Afghan Turkestan) and thus to make it less vulnerable to Russian encroachment and Russian annexation.
 * Israel's colonization of East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Golan Heights (and formerly the Gaza Strip as well). One purpose of Israel's settlement movement is to Judaize these territories and thus to increase the odds of Israel permanently keeping some or all of these territories.
 * The Chuang Guandong: The Chinese colonization of (Inner) Manchuria in order to prevent Russia from annexing it just like Russia previously did with Outer Manchuria in 1858-1860.

Anyway, though, which additional examples of this have there been throughout history? Futurist110 (talk) 21:57, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * The Israeli example doesn't work as the movement there is not one of separation but resistance. Of 19 (talk) 01:15, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * It was meant to weaken Palestinian separatism (among other things), no? Futurist110 (talk) 02:53, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Still doesn't work. I see you yourself just created the term "Palestinian separatism" and made it a redirect to State of Palestine. There is no such thing as Palestinian separatism, which would imply that the Palestinians are seeking independence from Israel. As you well know, that is not the case at all. Israel is illegally occupying those territories you mention. --Viennese Waltz 10:08, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * One could say that Israel has already de facto annexed the West Bank even if it did not actually do so de jure, though. (Of course, Israel did de jure annex East Jerusalem to my knowledge.) Futurist110 (talk) 19:06, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * To be accurate though, one would say that the world's longest ongoing belligerent occupation is occurring in conjunction with war crimes including the forced displacement of the local population and the colonizing of the territory by the occupier's civilians.
 * Also, Israel did not de jure annex East Jerusalem, they tried to and the rest of the world said no, of course not, you can't just make a law saying that other people's territory belongs to you.Of 19 (talk) 20:51, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Plantation of Ulster although Ireland wasn't technically a colony, it had some elements of one. Alansplodge (talk) 09:55, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Also the Landsker Line delineates the medieval English settlement in West Wales. Alansplodge (talk) 09:59, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Moving Kazakhstan's capital to Astana was done just to have the capital in a more central location (Almaty is off in a corner of the country), along the lines of what numerous other countries have done in the past (U.S., Canada, Brazil, Nigeria, Tanzania, Côte d'Ivoire...) It was also a way to mark a new beginning for the country, as an independent nation. I doubt that it had the slightest impact on whatever Russian separatist feelings there may have been - it's not as if there has been mass migration accompanying the change of capitals. Xuxl (talk) 13:13, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I was under the impression that a lot of Kazakhs (almost a million of them, in fact) actually did move to Nur-Sultan/Astana after it was made the Kazakh capital–no? Futurist110 (talk) 18:38, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Plantation_of_Ulster Iapetus (talk) 15:49, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

China's pro-Han policies in Xinjiang and Tibet might qualify. DOR (HK) (talk) 21:25, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Queen Victoria's dressmaker
Is it known when (which years) queen Victoria's dressmaker Mary Bettans was born and died? The article lacks that information. The problem is the same for her colleague Elizabeth Johnston (dressmaker).--Aciram (talk) 23:07, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I couldn't find anything in a quick search. She made a mourning dress for the infant princess Victoria on the death of her father in 1820, so she must have been born somewhere in the late 18th century. I've added a mention of the mourning dress to the article. Chuntuk (talk) 15:42, 24 March 2021 (UTC)


 * "The name of Mary Bettans has already been mentioned and it is fortunate that two sets of dress samples can now be fairly positively associated with her workrooms in Jermyn Street. She is otherwise a rather shadowy character She must already have been well established when she began making Victoria ' s dresses in 1824, and may well have worked for the Duchess of Kent since 1818. She was clearly no longer young and was probably conservative."
 * In Royal Fashion: The Clothes of Princess Charlotte of Wales & Queen Victoria, 1796-1901 p. 121 (snippet view only) from the Museum of London. Alansplodge (talk) 23:01, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * BTW, here is am interesting account of her treatment of apprentices in 1841. Although required to work from 7:30 am until 10 or 11 pm and sometimes all night, they got a month's paid holiday at the end of the season. Alansplodge (talk) 23:01, 24 March 2021 (UTC)