Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 May 24

= May 24 =

documents that discuss the constitutional debate over slavery
In Frederick Douglass's third autobiography, in chapter 7 of part 2, he mentions that He at one point believed that the Consitution was proslavery (the Garrisonian view), but he later changed his mind. What are some documents from the 1840s and 50s that discuss this debate on whether the constitution was pro or anti slavery? Rydrrrr4 (talk) 03:34, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * The U.S. Constitution left slavery in place where it was, and allowed for the passage of a fugitive-slave law to protect it, but on the other hand, it conspicuously avoided using the word "slave" (as many in the 19th century pointed out) and allowed Congress to forbid the importation of slaves from outside the U.S. after 1808 (which it did). Many people seem to have strange ideas about the meaning of the infamous 3/5ths clause, but its actual main purpose was to prevent slave states from having disproportionate political power.
 * Many 1840s documents on the subject are quoted in Chapter 7 of "Means and Ends in American Abolitionism: Garrison and His Critics on Strategy and Tactics 1834-1850" by Aileen S. Kraditor. AnonMoos (talk) 04:42, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I think I've heard it argued that 3/5ths clause allowed slave states having disproportionate political power. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:29, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Each state's number of representatives in the House is/was based on the overall total population of that state (as revealed by decennial censuses), regardless of citizenship, voting ability, or whatever. It included slaves in the 19th century, and includes illegal immigrants and homeless people today.  (The only exemption was "Indians not taxed" in the years before 1924, which effectively meant enclaves free from most direct state government control.)  In that context, 3/5 was a selective discount on the criterion of the indiscriminate total population of each state, which was otherwise used...  If you're against slavery, then you should logically wish that the discount factor should be as small as possible (2/5 or 1/5 or one one-thousandth etc), but some people tell a story according to which you should wish that the number was larger than it actually was (those people are misinformed). AnonMoos (talk) 19:50, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That makes sense. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:16, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Last independent Jewish realm before Israel's independence
Was Hasmonean Kingdom of Judea the last independent sovereign Jewish realm before the proclamation of Israel in 1948 or there were others after that kingdom (excluding Judean provisional government (66-68) which was reportedly unrecognized)? Thanks. 212.180.235.46 (talk) 09:13, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * First off, the word "unrecognized" is more relevant to Westphalian diplomacy than ancient times. There was a whole series of Jewish rebellions against Rome (not only in Judea), down to about 135 A.D.  The Royal family of the kingdom of Adiabene also converted to Judaism.  Around 500 AD there was Mar-Zutra II, then one last fling of the Jewish revolt against Heraclius... AnonMoos (talk) 09:53, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Until well past the Middle Ages, the modern notions of statehood aren't really well-established; if we take the simplest definition of a settled people with autonomous control over a piece of land, then there are several good contenders for post-Roman Jewish states. The Mountain Jews (also, confusingly the same as the "Valley Jews") of Dagestan were pretty much left alone and autonomous until the area was annexed by Russia in the 19th century.  Similarly, the Brutakhi may have been an independent Jewish state in the Volga region, they are possibly related to the Jewish Khazars, which are a likely Jewish state, see for example List of Khazar rulers.  The Jewishness of the Khazars is not without controversy, and the record is spotty, but that's probably the most famous historical state of Jews post-diaspora.  -- Jayron 32 11:22, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * With every reservation about the use of terms like 'sovereign' (and for that matter 'realm'), the Karaite stronghold of Chufut-Kale in Crimea at times had certain characteristics of autonomy. --T*U (talk) 07:13, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

Future of SMB games
Forty years ago, Donkey Kong came out, and Mario was introduced.

Then, 2 years later came Mario Bros. It developed Mario into a character with his own series.

After that came the platforming games; they are:


 * Super Mario Bros. started the platforming part of Mario's games. It introduced all basic properties of Mario's platforming games.


 * Super Mario Bros. 2 was a similar game only with great difficulty and new features like the poison mushroom. (It was released only in Japan during the NES era. For us American players Nintendo lied about what game is SMB2 by releasing Doki Doki Mario and pretending it is SMB2.)


 * Super Mario Bros. 3 got new looks for many things, and introduced more new features such as the Raccoon leaf and airships.


 * Super Mario World introduced Yoshi.


 * Super Mario All-Stars was a remake of SMB, SMB2, SMB3, and DDM with SNES graphics.


 * Yoshi's Island is a prequel dealing with Baby Mario.


 * Super Mario Bros. Deluxe is a handheld remake of SMB with a mode for SMB2.


 * Super Mario Advance was a series of remakes including DDM, SMW, YI, and SMB3 in that order.


 * New Super Mario Bros. is a handheld original with lots of creative elements. New Super Mario Bros. Wii is the home console sequel.


 * New Super Mario Bros. 2 is a handheld sequel to NSMB; New Super Mario Bros. U is a home console sequel.


 * Super Mario Maker is a game where people create their own levels, as is Super Mario Maker 2.

Now people are saying that there won't be any more Mario platformers. This was a big worry at the start of April; please do the appropriate Google search to find details. Georgia guy (talk) 16:36, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * What exactly is your question? Matt Deres (talk) 21:06, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The best question is: why did people have this worry and is it really true?? Wikipedia needs to talk about this in whatever articles it would make sense to have it in; it was a popular worry in March and April 2021. Georgia guy (talk) 22:11, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Some quick googling suggests that the worry is regarding Nintendo no longer selling various games on their eShop (cite). However, that was the intention all along; when they were listed last September, everyone knew they'd only be offered for a limited time (cite). Why would they do that? Our article at Moratorium (entertainment) seems to cover it pretty well: basically it's to drive up demand through artificial scarcity. Matt Deres (talk) 03:50, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

I know almost nothing about this stuff, but I remember playing Mario's Cement Factory. You missed it in your list, --Dweller (talk) Old fashioned is the new thing! 20:51, 25 May 2021 (UTC)

The Royal Broadcasts 1935
Hello all. I've recently come into possession of a trove of old documents, some of which I'll likely reach out to this group to help me place/understand. Today, I'm hoping for some help tracking down info about a small pamphlet titled The Royal Broadcasts, which is a reference to the Royal Christmas Message. This booklet is about 15 cm x 9 cm on heavy paper stock, printed in purple ink and bound with a simple purple ribbon knot. There are notes from George, Mary, and Edward. Although it was apparently broadcast Christmas afternoon from Sandringham, this booklet was published later - the note from George is titled "King George's Last Message to the Citizens of his Empire" as he had died 20 Jan, 1936. And Ed's note is apparently from later still as he speaks of now being King. I've searched online and can't find anything that looks at all like this little booklet and I'm hopeful someone could shed some light on it, such as when exactly it was made - and by whom. It's quite simple looking and there is no publisher information on it at all. Matt Deres (talk) 17:42, 24 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Pics posted here. Matt Deres (talk) 17:50, 24 May 2021 (UTC)


 * I've not been able to find anything to help. It struck me it has the look of a privately printed item, perhaps produced as a souvenir or keepsake to be given to a loyal retainer? If you know anything about the origin of your trove it may give a clew. "I've recently come into possession of a trove of old documents" is the sort of thing I'd love to be in a position to say. DuncanHill (talk) 00:07, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * That sounds somehow Lovecraftian. --Trovatore (talk) 02:10, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It's not nearly as cool as some Lovecraftian horde of forbidden knowledge, but my daughter and I have found it a fun distraction in this locked down times. Back in the 1940s and 50s, my mom and her family lived in a rented house in London, Ontario. The landlady was a Miss Lucy McNeill. After she died in 1953, my grandfather somehow got possession of her correspondence. I don't know why, but it may just have been that they were both pack rats. There seems to be two components to the collection: stuff from around 1890-1950 consisting mostly of post cards and Christmas cards to Miss McNeill directly. Rather annoyingly, there's no longer correspondence; she only saved the stuff with pictures, not the stuff with text, so we only get snippets. My daughter has started building a database of what's there, trying to reconstitute the family tree and so on. If we can figure that stuff out, we'll start looking for living descendants. The other stuff is very much older, from about 1820-1850. It's longer texts, but very difficult to read. A bundle of papers detailing a river dredging exercise and sale of equipment (hmm, maybe that is a bit Lovecraftian sounding!) . There are also letters from that period, with remnants of the wax seals still on many of them, but we haven't really gotten into those yet, in part because the penmanship is just so exaggerated and difficult to read. That's a part they tend to leave out of historical documentaries. I assume there's some connection between the 1820-1850 stuff and the 1890-1950 stuff, but there's no guarantee of that. There was also some of my family's stuff mixed in there, which I've been able to separate out (food rationing cards from the 1940s, a payment agreement for when my grandfather bought his first "radio receiver", and so on). I'm assuming that the Royal Broadcasts booklet was Miss McNeill's, but it may well have been my grandfather's. He was born in England, but would have been in Canada for decades by that point, though. There's no hint yet that Lucy ever traveled to England. We only got this stuff last week, so we've only scratched the surface in many ways. There will likely be multiple related questions on the refdesks (like the vaccine one on Sci) as we try to piece together things. A fun jigsaw puzzle! Matt Deres (talk) 13:31, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * The Royal Broadcasts were aired live in Canada by the Canadian Radio Broadcasting Commission since 1932, so there need not be a direct connection with the UK.  Alansplodge (talk) 23:25, 28 May 2021 (UTC)