Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2021 October 27

= October 27 =

Apron part names
When fruits or vegetables are gathered and placed into the center of an apron to hold them when the person picks them, what is this part of the apron called (if it has a special name)? --Christie the puppy lover (talk) 13:31, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure whether my mental image of this picking activity is the same as yours, but I'd tend to refer to it as putting the fruits or vegetables in the lap of the garment (definition 2a here: "the clothing that lies on the knees, thighs, and lower part of the trunk when one sits"). In Golding's translation of Ovid's Metamorphoses, Proserpine, picking flowers, "fillde hir Maund [i.e., basket and Lap]" with them. Not really a "part of the apron", though, I suppose. Deor (talk) 16:16, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Here in England, ladies' undergarments of a generous size are called "apple-catchers". Alansplodge (talk) 23:19, 27 October 2021 (UTC)


 * A search of Google Books brought up this obscure quote:
 * Hold up the lap of your smock-frock, and mind you hold it firm! ” Loopooj did so, without knowing why; and instantly the gypsy seized a huge armful of flaming wood in his bare hands, as coolly as if he were only picking apples..."
 * The Wizard King: A Story of the Last Moslem Invasion of Europe (1895). Alansplodge (talk) 00:03, 28 October 2021 (UTC)


 * The original meaning of English lap is the loose-hanging lower part of a garment; the sense seen in lap dog – the part of a sitting person's body covered by such a garment flap – is a later development. An apron can be more than a lap, commonly also covering a substantial part of the upper torso. Here someone fills "the lap of the apron" with potatoes, and here an old woman stacks ears of corn in "the lap of her apron". --Lambiam 10:25, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Citing Wikipeda
When I cite Wikipedia as a source, should I simply use 'Wikipedia'? or 'Wikipedia The Free Encyclopedia'. Thanks! Loltol (talk) 23:41, 27 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The real answer is you should never cite Wikipedia as a source. Look up the sources that Wikipedia uses, and cite them instead.  (Ideally you should check to make sure they actually say what Wikipedia says they say.)
 * In fact this is what you should do with any encyclopedia or indeed any tertiary source, not just Wikipedia. But it's an especially urgent issue with Wikipedia because of the "anyone can edit" nature of the site.  Out-and-out nonsense tends to get removed pretty fast (unless it's legitimately in the sources, which can happen, but there's not that much we can do about that).  However, the particular snapshot you looked at might well have a bad edit that hasn't been removed yet. --Trovatore (talk) 01:45, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * There can be legitimate reasons to cite Wikipedia in an academic paper, as in the article "Organizational Identity and Paradox: An Analysis of the 'Stable State of Instability' of Wikipedia’s Identity". This paper is also an illustration of how not to do it: it cites various Wikipedia policy pages without identifying the revision, thus paradoxically not acknowledging the perpetual instability that is the paper's very inspiration. Wikipedia has also been cited in US court decisions in support of arguments how a term is commonly understood. Another reasonable case is (IMO) as a service to one's readers in the form of a "further reading" reference. --Lambiam 09:58, 28 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Go to the article you want to site. On the left side list of links, there is "Cite this page".  It will show you the citation in various formats, such as APA, MLA, and several more.  You should use "Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia."   Example:  RudolfRed (talk) 02:31, 28 October 2021 (UTC)