Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 August 25

= August 25 =

Salman Rushdie's "heresy" - more offensive to Shi'a than to Sunnis?
Hearing recently about Salman Rushdie being stabbed reminded me of this old saga.

As I understand it, the fatwa calling Rushdie an infidel and a heretic (and calling for his death) was issued by the Shi'a / Shi'ite Ayatollah Khomeini. Likewise, the alleged assailant (who attacked Rushdie only a few weeks ago, as of this writing) was also Shi'a.

(Can somebody please clarify whether "Shi'a" or "Shi'ite" is more correct - or perhaps, which is more correct in which context? But please don't let this distract from the main question).

This raised interesting thoughts in my mind: Is Rushdie's supposed form of "heresy" more offensive to Shi'a than to Sunnis? And if yes, why so? (Islamic theology is not my specialty). Thanks in advance. Eliyohub (talk) 05:38, 25 August 2022 (UTC)


 * The alleged incident of Muhammad revealing the Satanic Verses is contained in traditional Muslim sources; no one would have ever heard of it if it hadn't been transmitted by Muslims. But at least many Muslims rejected the tradition on their own initiative many centuries ago (as opposed to the traditions of Aisha's marriage age and consummation age, which very few Muslims questioned before non-Muslims started calling attention to them). AnonMoos (talk) 05:51, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks, but that doesn't quite answer my specific question: Were/are Shi'a, historically and/or in modern times, more firm in "rejecting" said alleged "incident/legend" of those supposed "Muhammed revealing satanic verses in the Koran" than Sunnis were? Was Rushdie's book more offensive to Shia than to Sunnis - or did the outrage thoroughly cross Islam's sectarian divide? Eliyohub (talk) 06:40, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know anything about that personally. For whatever it's worth, Aqa Mahdi Puya was a Shi`ite, while most of the other names mentioned in the Satanic Verses section were Sunnis.  Also, Iran has a theocratic government, while most other Muslim-majority nations, even though some of them may zealously defend Islam, are not actually theocratic (except partially Saudi Arabia)... AnonMoos (talk) 09:30, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Hijacking this thread: I was going to ask a new question about Rushdie, but seeing as this one is already here, I'll add mine. What is his current condition? Is he still in hospital? Is it confirmed that he has lost an eye? The news outlets don't seem to have carried any updates in recent days. --Viennese Waltz 08:36, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * If no news outlet has the information, the fact that any one random frequenter of the reference desk would have the information is much smaller. Unless someone here has visited him in hospital, its unlikely that we'd have that information, insofar as the news also didn't have it.  -- Jayron 32 11:49, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yeah my question was based on the premise that there might be a news outlet that has reported on his condition which I have missed. --Viennese Waltz 12:08, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * This seems to be the latest that Google can find, dated 15 August. Alansplodge (talk) 14:00, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

A C.S. Lewis book
In one of his books there is the text of an address he gave - I think to divinity students or at a seminary - it was about morality and majored on the temptation to join the 'in' crowd rather than be true to your own feelings of what is right. I know I have this book but can't recall its title. HELP!! Gurumaister (talk) 07:48, 25 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Don't know about the address, but he treated this subject extensively in the fictional adventures of the character Mark Studdock in his novel "That Hideous Strength"... AnonMoos (talk) 09:19, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for being helpful but this was an actual address that he gave to some students - it wasn't part of one of his novels. Gurumaister (talk) 09:24, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I wonder if it was "The Inner Ring", an address given to the students of King's College, University of London? --Antiquary (talk) 11:33, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you; that is it! And since I can now copy and paste the text, I don't need to know which book it is in. Gurumaister (talk) 11:57, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Good. If you prefer to read it on paper, as I would, you'll see from the top of the linked webpage that it was collected in Lewis's Transposition and Other Addresses. --Antiquary (talk) 12:08, 25 August 2022 (UTC)

Berlin Conference
I was reading this Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/wxhlbi/berlin_conference_in_1884_what_they_wanted_vs/ Is there a source somewhere describing those claims? I'm particularly curious about the Ottoman and the Portuguese ones. Thank you! 79.46.7.189 (talk) 20:23, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
 * The article Berlin Conference mentions the claims of Portugal. The Ottomans were experiencing their "Sick man of Europe" phase, and, while I cannot find a direct source, likely were still trying to exert suzerainty claims over their former North African possessions; I'm pretty sure they objected to the UK's claims to Egypt, for example.  -- Jayron 32 11:03, 26 August 2022 (UTC)


 * For Turkey, The Ottoman Scramble for Africa: Empire and Diplomacy in the Sahara and Hijaz has a lengthy preview on Google Books.
 * I'm not able to access the preview. --80.182.99.8 (talk) 14:57, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Try this? Alansplodge (talk) 16:52, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It still say: "No preview available". Maybe it is locked in my country. --80.182.99.8 (talk) 17:47, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Okay, try this one (only the introduction, but it does touch on the Berlin Confrerence). Alansplodge (talk) 17:53, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Even better, you can read the whole book on archive.org. Alansplodge (talk) 18:00, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
 * It works, thank you! --80.182.99.8 (talk) 20:31, 27 August 2022 (UTC)
 * For Portugal, there is some info about the Berlin conference in The Third Portuguese Empire, 1825-1975: A Study in Economic Imperialism.
 * Alansplodge (talk) 11:12, 26 August 2022 (UTC)