Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 December 13

= December 13 =

Infinity and the human brain
Who first suggested that, if the universe (or all universes) are infinite, the possibility of the finite human brain (or all human brains collectively) completely understanding it is infinitesimally small? Is there a name for such an idea, and is there a meaningful refutation? Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * The idea by itself is not clearly meaningful. There is a mathematical concept of an infinitesimal quantity. It is unknown, and probably unknowable, if this has any use outside of mathematics other than as a trick to simplify a stupendously complicated reality. Applying the concept to a human brain, other than to insult its possessor, does not make sense. --Lambiam 16:27, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * For the "who first" part of your question, the answer is probably lost to time. Infinity names some of the surviving ancient texts that discussed the question.Augustine is specifically mentioned as discussing the problem of comprehension.70.67.193.176 (talk) 16:59, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Thomas Digges (1546-1595) is generally credited with proposing an infinite universe. Alansplodge (talk) 22:56, 13 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Ghmyrtle -- It may have been J. B. S. Haldane who said "The universe is not only stranger than we imagine; but stranger than we CAN imagine" (this quote has also been attributed to others).  On the other hand, Roger Penrose has proposed that quantum effects mean that the human brain has connections with aspects of the infinite... AnonMoos (talk) 04:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)


 * More accurately: "Now, my own suspicion is that the universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose…I suspect that there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of, or can be dreamed of, in any philosophy." - J.B.S. Haldane Possible Worlds and Other Essays (1927) ‘Possible Worlds’ -- 13:06, 14 December 2022‎ Khajidha


 * What I don't understand is why Haldane's statement - which seems to me to be self-evidently obvious and true - has not been developed more into a belief system. Or, has it, and I'm simply unaware of it?  Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:36, 19 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Ideas of the infinite go back to Anaximander. What you suggest is something like Kant's Ding an sich or Herbert Spencer's "Unknowable". The standard "refutation" / opposed point of view to Kant's Ding an sich is Hegel's philosophy, who said that this Ding an sich / thing in itself is simply another word for Nothing.John Z (talk) 03:29, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Ineffability is a related concept. Cullen328 (talk) 04:32, 15 December 2022 (UTC)

Who first suggested…
 * I think it’s unlikely you’ll find the origin in Western philosophy. Everything points to this idea being found in Hindu, Buddhist, or Chinese philosophy. This is because infinity was treated as a positive concept in those cultures, while the Greeks treated it negatively, and this bias persists today.  My guess is you’ll find this question first raised in the Rigveda, before anyone else.  Good luck. Viriditas (talk) 21:50, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Mahoney, JA (1981)
I'm looking for some information about the zoologist (probably?) Mahoney, JA. I'm mainly interested in his first name, and his nationality. It appears for example in this article:. Thanks in advance. מנחם.אל (talk) 18:10, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Probably Australian see these works. DuncanHill (talk) 18:13, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * In 1975 he was at the Department of Geology and Geophysics, University of Sydney. DuncanHill (talk) 18:18, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * The University of Sydney awards the "Jack Mahoney Memorial Prize in Geology" which was "Established in 1986 by the Department of Geology and Geophysics in memory of Jack Mahoney, for many years Senior Tutor in the Department, who had a particular interest in the practical work components of the Department's curriculum. Awarded annually on the recommendation of the Head of the School of Geosciences for proficiency in the practical component of Junior Geology". So presumably his forename was John or Jack. I would suggest you try contacting the Department. DuncanHill (talk) 18:26, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the quick reply! מנחם.אל (talk) 18:38, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
 * From page 21 here: "Mr. Jack Mahoney, a valued associate of the Mammal section for many years, died in October 1985. An authority on the classification and evolution of Australian mammals he gave valuable advice and assistance with the collection over many years."     Further sources here, and here (pp. 126 et seq.).  Probably this person - genealogy sites give him as Jack Andrew Mahoney, born 17 September 1926, Junee, New South Wales, Australia, died 17 October 1985, Turramurra, New South Wales. (Some sites state 17 November, but this is clearly an error, as his death notice was published in the Sydney Morning Herald on 19 October.)  Ghmyrtle (talk) 23:05, 19 December 2022 (UTC)