Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 June 4

= June 4 =

Why St Paul's and not the Abbey?
Why was the Platinum Jubilee National Service of Thanksgiving held at St Paul's Cathedral and not Westminster Abbey? One does rather see the Abbey as the nation's tabernacle while St Paul's is very much London's. Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 01:23, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * A possibility is that it was because St. Paul's is much closer than the Abbey to the Guildhall, where HM the Queen and other Royal Family members were to attend a reception shortly after the service. In the event HM attended neither, having "experienced discomfort" at the Trooping the Colour the previous day, but given her general state of health, minimising the journey lengths involved might have been a planning consideration.
 * My father attended all three of the aforementioned events, so when I next see him in a few days time I'll ask if, by any chance, he knows, and respond on your talk page if this query has been archived. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.171.123 (talk) 02:19, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you - your father must be one of the great and the good (assuming he's not Johnson (who is neither), but then it's unlikely you'd know he was your father if he was). I thought the Micks put on a very good show on Thursday. DuncanHill (talk) 03:52, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Nah! Just a retired British Army senior NCO. He went to the service and reception as the escort/guest of a female friend and ex-colleague (in a recruits-training context) who was getting a Medal of the Order of the British Empire at St. Paul's. Come to think of it, the Order's chapel is in St. Paul's, as is the OMG's, so combining the Service with bestowing those awards might have been another reason for the choice of location. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.199.171.123 (talk) 04:36, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * One basic factor could be that St. Paul's is larger, and isn't long and narrow. Queen Victoria celebrated her diamond jubilee by her carriage stopping in front of St. Paul's, but she didn't go into the church, because of health problems.. AnonMoos (talk) 07:08, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Just moved my latest article, National service of thanksgiving into mainspace (still needs some work), which gives the historical context. Basically an excuse for Elizabeth I to have a big procession through London from Westminster to the City, but the procession element has been put in obeyance since the Queen became too old for long carriage drives. In addition to AnonMoos's correct comments about the size of St Paul's, Westminster also has an awkward medieval rood screen that stops half the people seeing what's happening. Alansplodge (talk) 07:46, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Charles & Diana also chose St Paul's, rather than the Abbey, as the venue for their wedding, presumably for similar reasons. --Viennese Waltz 07:52, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * This is the rood screen in the Abbey; originally before the Reformation it was intended to separate the clergy and VIPs from the hoi-poloi, who could only hear the singing and occasionally glimpse the mystical goings-on on the other side. At William and Kate's wedding, they had giant TV screens so that the guests in the nave could watch the actual ceremony. Alansplodge (talk) 08:57, 4 June 2022 (UTC)
 * However, I believe that it's the centuries-old custom of using St Paul's for thanksgiving services which is the main driver. Another factor is that it gives the Abbey staff a bit of a breather. In recent months they've hosted services for the Order of the Bath, Florence Nightingale commemoration, ANZAC Day, life of the Duke of Edinburgh, life of Vera Lynn and Commonwealth Day.  Alansplodge (talk) 07:32, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
 * That has echoes of Sir Humphrey Appleby's "We can't possibly have patients here. We're far too busy running a hospital!". --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:11, 6 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Well maybe, but both St Paul's and the Abbey also provide four or more services daily,  at least one of which is choral, as well as special services for the major Christian festivals, in addition to being some of the busiest UK tourist attractions with each having more than 1.5 million visitors annually.  These state occasions make a for a great deal of additional work and I expect that sharing the load is appreciated. Alansplodge (talk) 14:23, 6 June 2022 (UTC)