Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 May 19

= May 19 =

Chaos Gods and Tannin (Monster)
May I ask why Tannin is listed as an Arabic chaos god? I don’t believe this is mentioned anywhere on the actual Wikipedia page for this entity. However, if Tannin was mentioned as a god somewhere within some historical text, may I have the link to it, please? Thank you!


 * Hello anonymous person. The place to discuss this is the Talk page of the article in question, which you haven't identified.--Shantavira|feed me 08:02, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for informing me! I’ll go to that page right away 209.166.122.192 (talk) 08:27, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, this is the page I am referring to!
 * This is my first time using the reference desk and talk pages on Wikipedia so I apologize for my newbie errors. 🙇🏻 209.166.122.192 (talk) 08:29, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't mean to dispute that the article's talk page is a place to ask this question, but the article hasn't been edited in five months, and you're the first to use its talk page, and if you look at (to take a random example) Talk:The Island of Doctor Agor, you may still be waiting for a reply two years from now. Wikipedia is a bit dysfunctional in assuming that passing editors will notice things in dusty corners and react. Card Zero  (talk) 09:20, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * In the meantime, this IS the place to ask for a reference, so here goes:
 * “ Sea " ( Yamm ) and “ Dragon " ( Tannin ) were symbols of chaos in Canaan and Israel.
 * It seems to me that it would better listed be under "Canaanite" rather than "Arabic". Alansplodge (talk) 14:00, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The source Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible, in Tannin (monster), has it originating in Ugarit, some 80 miles north of Canaan, but then being adopted for use in the Old Testament and subsequently appearing in texts in several other languages. It is currently under the heading "Arabian", which may mean something slightly different from "Arabic". Card Zero  (talk) 14:24, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Arabian does indeed mean something different from Arabic, though there is some overlap. Either way, I don't see how either applies to Ugarit. ColinFine (talk) 15:45, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I mean it's nearly in the Arabian Plate, except it's on the coast, which puts it the wrong side of a fault line - I thought maybe there was some lazy, old-fashioned usage of "Arabian" to include Mesopotamia and the whole general area south of Anatolia and east of Egypt. I'm just grasping for straws trying to explain the choice of heading. Previously the article organized Tannin under Mesopotamian, then Near and Middle Eastern, before settling on the current worst version. Maybe trying to organize chaos gods is just a bad idea. Card Zero  (talk) 16:01, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The term "Arabia" hasn't always meant just the Arabian Peninsula, or Saudi Arabia as it does today. At various times, it meant merely the Arab world, for whatever that meant at the time.  Arab, Arabia, etc. have been applied to various lands and peoples which were not located on the Arabian Peninsula.  Arabia Petraea, for example, or even Arabia, the Achaemenid Satrapy, neither of which included the Arabian peninsula.  As noted at History of the Arabs, the term got applied to the people and lands today covered by roughly anyone from Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, the Sinai, the Levant, etc, in addition to the Arabian Peninsula.  The Emesene dynasty, the Kingdom of Hatra, etc. were all considered Arabian and didn't live on the Arabian peninsula.  On the "Arabic"/"Arabian" distinction, the former is generally only used to describe a language, while the latter is used to describe a people, a culture, a nation, etc.  -- Jayron 32 17:54, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have followed both sources and moved it down to "Canaanite" section. First actual reference in the whole article! Alansplodge (talk) 18:24, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reference! 209.166.122.192 (talk) 19:00, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * The term "Arabia" hasn't always meant just the Arabian Peninsula, or Saudi Arabia as it does today. At various times, it meant merely the Arab world, for whatever that meant at the time.  Arab, Arabia, etc. have been applied to various lands and peoples which were not located on the Arabian Peninsula.  Arabia Petraea, for example, or even Arabia, the Achaemenid Satrapy, neither of which included the Arabian peninsula.  As noted at History of the Arabs, the term got applied to the people and lands today covered by roughly anyone from Syria, Iraq, Kuwait, the Sinai, the Levant, etc, in addition to the Arabian Peninsula.  The Emesene dynasty, the Kingdom of Hatra, etc. were all considered Arabian and didn't live on the Arabian peninsula.  On the "Arabic"/"Arabian" distinction, the former is generally only used to describe a language, while the latter is used to describe a people, a culture, a nation, etc.  -- Jayron 32 17:54, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have followed both sources and moved it down to "Canaanite" section. First actual reference in the whole article! Alansplodge (talk) 18:24, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you for the reference! 209.166.122.192 (talk) 19:00, 19 May 2022 (UTC)

Consortium for Asian, African and Islamic studies
Besides Consortium for Asian and African Studies, California Consortium in Islamic Studies and Netherlands Interuniversity School for Islamic Studies. are there other consortia for Asian and African Studies and Islamic Studies in the world? Donmust90 (talk) 14:56, 19 May 2022 (UTC)Donmust90Donmust90 (talk) 14:56, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Category:Asian studies, Category:African studies, and Category:Islamic studies has some ideas for you to follow. The distinction between a consortium, institute, center, etc, etc, is probably insignificant here, but those categories each contain numerous different groups that focus on the relevant studies.  In general, Wikipedia categories are a good way to find additional examples of specific topics.  -- Jayron 32 17:45, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * See also SOAS University of London (School of Oriental and African Studies) which dates from 1916. Alansplodge (talk) 18:26, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Also Institut national des langues et civilisations orientales in Paris and Leibniz-Zentrum Moderner Orient in Berlin. Alansplodge (talk) 18:30, 19 May 2022 (UTC)


 * I already read about these universities that you mentioned. That is why I am asking the mentioned question. SOAS and Institut national des langues et civilisations orientales are members of Consortium for Asian and African Studies with Columbia University and Leiden University in the Netherlands. Please read the question again and answer the question properly. Thank you. Donmust90 (talk) 02:01, 24 May 2022 (UTC)Donmust90Donmust90 (talk) 02:01, 24 May 2022 (UTC)
 * User:Donmust90 I was only trying to help. Those institutions are not mentioned by name in your question, which I did indeed read before answering. If you can't be polite, perhaps you should ask your questions elsewhere. Alansplodge (talk) 22:25, 24 May 2022 (UTC)