Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 November 15

= November 15 =

Book of poetry to ID
Back in the 1980s (I think) I came across a book of scary poetry that I'd like to re-find and I'm having trouble. I have no idea who the poet was, though I think it was fairly modern. It was a collection of poems, all creepy, and I think it was illustrated. I only recall fragments of different poems, and so far haven't been able to use them to pin it down. One started with "In the ghostly, ghastly silence of the misty, misty moor / a phosphorescent specter sets about its midnight tour." and then later included lines like "It can hold you and enfold you in such ways you can't endure." Pretty creepy stuff! And you'd think this fragment would be enough to lead me to the book, but no luck so far. Can anyone help? Matt Deres (talk) 01:56, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * E.g.: "The Spectre on the Moor"
 * --136.56.52.157 (talk) 02:41, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * That's it! Thank you! My memory for the verse was actually not too far off. :-) I'm honestly shocked that Google seemed to completely miss large direct quotes. Well, now I can search by the author - thanks again! Matt Deres (talk) 16:13, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Google told me it was DuncanHill (talk) 16:28, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * "Spectre on the Moor" is evidently in both books. (WP won't let me link to videos of readings from each). 136.56.52.157 (talk) 17:08, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * "Spectre on the Moor" is evidently in both books. (WP won't let me link to videos of readings from each). 136.56.52.157 (talk) 17:08, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Rasputin
After his death, during the revolution and Communist period, his wife and their children were remained loyals to the Imperial family? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.146.182 (talk) 09:35, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Not much is known about his wife and children; they mostly remained in Pokrovskoye, and they basically never saw him again after he left. What we know about his life before showing up in St. Petersburg is mostly what is reported by his daughter and biographer Maria Rasputin, which as the Wikipedia article notes "the veracity of which have been questioned."  There's some information about Maria, her life, and that of some of her siblings in the Wikipedia article; that may lead you to more places to research the answers to your questions.  -- Jayron 32 12:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Statistics on education in 1850s England and Wales
I've recently been updated the education section of Victorian era using the pamphlet "Education, Literacy and the Reading Public" from the University of Cambridge (See link:ghn_essay_bln_lloyd3_website.pdf). It includes this paragraph:


 * However, as late as the 1850s, approximately half of all children in England and Wales attended no school (other than Sunday school). Day schools were not as popular as Sunday schools for working-class children, as they charged fees and operated during the week. Indeed, many working-class parents—especially unskilled workers—were forced through economic need to send their children to work, rather than to school. Moreover, as the average length of attendance was only around three years, even those children who did attend day schools probably did not achieve a high level of educational attainment.

I'm not sure if this means half of all the people who were children at the time weren't at school (i.e including children who'd previously been to school and left) or half of children had never been to school (i.e not including that group). Also, it's not clear whether three years of attendance was the average for all children or just those who went to school. I've gone back and forth on this so think it would be good idea to get a second opinion. Llewee (talk) 20:55, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * I did quite a lot of work on our Elementary school (England and Wales) article, which I hope is worth reading. Perhaps your quote is referreing to the Newcastle Commission, which was commissioned in 1858 and reported in 1861. The "Findings" section summerises the results. They are a "snapshot" derived from the census and school records, so I'm not sure if anybody knew whether those children who were not registered at a school had previously been so or not.
 * The education system at the time depended entirely on either private provision, including the dame schools which were little better than a child-minding service, and charity schools run by the churches, which were eligable for government subsidy but were not monitored and were largely absent from the inner-cities. The commisssion led to a system of oversight where schools only received a subsidy if they reached a set standard in the three Rs and eventually to the Elementary Education Act 1870 and the establishment of secular board schools, but it was not until 1918 that fees for state schooling were finally abolished. We were well behind our competitors in Europe and North America in the provision of basic education. Alansplodge (talk) 15:28, 16 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Education in England: a history, Derek Gillard (1998) is a good source; in this instance, see Chapter 5 and Chapter 6, which explain the (now rather puzzling) reluctance of the British Government to concern itself with education. Alansplodge (talk) 15:40, 16 November 2022 (UTC)


 * It's not really that puzzling -- a large number of Church of England people insisted that any national schools funded by the national government should naturally be required to teach the national religion, while many of other religions were loudly vocal about not wanting to pay one farthing in taxes to support schools which they wouldn't want their children to attend. This stalemate lasted decades... AnonMoos (talk) 22:33, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I meant that it would be puzzling if you didn't know the background - nearly all governments nowadays have education provision as a major priority. Alansplodge (talk) 13:43, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, that's very helpful. In that case, I think I'll leave it as saying that they were not at school rather than had never been to school. As it says the average attendance was three years, I was confused as to whether a lot of older children would have been to school and then left.--Llewee (talk) 12:06, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Medieval Guilds
What type of work did a medieval goldsmith shop do besides gold jewelry? --Christie the puppy lover (talk) 20:58, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * The article Goldsmith, especially the first paragraph, and the History section, might be of interest to you. -- Verbarson talkedits 21:23, 15 November 2022 (UTC)


 * Cherry, John (1992), Goldsmiths has a preview on Google Books. The introduction says that there was no separate trade of silversmithing, and they also worked in copper; mainly producing tableware and ornaments for wealthy clients or, if based in a monastery, religious artifacts. Alansplodge (talk) 15:49, 16 November 2022 (UTC)