Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 October 21

= October 21 =

on the seven wonders of the "medieval and middle ages"
it currently prints that the middle ages and medieval is untrue because it was invented after the middle ages and during the enlightened era. if you were alive in the middle ages and medieval times "it wasnt called that and if it was called anything the age inhabitants would of considered it the " end of the world age, or maybe hope in the future " i hope you read what is printed currently and get my point.  thank you 2400:4152:9300:9600:DC36:8718:C7E5:D54 (talk) 01:27, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * What Wikipedia article are you talking about? <-Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots-> 01:48, 21 October 2022 (UTC)


 * Not exactly sure what you're trying to say, but Joachim of Fiore predicted that the world would transition into a new era of divine history in 1260... AnonMoos (talk) 04:41, 21 October 2022 (UTC)


 * It is hard to know what point you're making given you don't link to an article. Perhaps Wonders_of_the_World? But even with that, I still don't get what point you're making. Are you wanting us to reword the article, remove the list, or what? --jjron (talk) 07:40, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think the OP is referring to this, though their question (if there is a question) makes no sense to me either. Shantavira|feed me 08:00, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Numbers are the object of studies. They are also easily dissociated from what they may be associated to by the study. As a result, the qualities and relations associated with them were frequently variable before the digital age; they can even remain so in many fields. --Askedonty (talk) 09:33, 21 October 2022 (UTC)


 * The OP is indeed hard to understand, but what I think will help them understand better is the concept of historiography, how we talk about history, rather than the history itself. There are lots of ways we discuss the past that were not used by the people living in those times.  Of course people living during the middle ages didn't use the term "middle ages" because it wasn't the middle of anything for them.  That doesn't mean it is inappropriate for modern historians to use it, however; while arbitrary it is a convenient and well-attested term to refer to the millenium between the fall of the Western Roman Empire and the age of Transatlantic exploration and colonization.  -- Jayron 32 11:04, 21 October 2022 (UTC)


 * If, rummaging through the archives of a medieval monastery, I come upon a manuscript describing Seven Wonders of the World, I might be forgiven when, including a translation into contemporary English in a publication on my discovery, I'd add the title "Seven Wonders of the Middle Ages" to it. So (IMO) the presence of such a title is not by itself a strong argument against historical authenticity. It becomes suspect when the title is present in the allegedly historical original document, or when this document cannot be produced or has no plausible provenance. --Lambiam 12:57, 21 October 2022 (UTC)

Soviet frigate Storozhevoy Mutiny
I was watching a video of Tom Clancy describing the Soviet frigate Storozhevoy Mutiny. In his version of events, the Soviet forces accidentally fired on the wrong Krivak-class frigate. Are there sources that can support this claim?

The English wikipedia article doesn't describe any friendly fire incidents. But I thought maybe the Russian wikipedia article may have something about it. Helian James (talk) 12:00, 21 October 2022 (UTC)


 * You can read an autogenerated translation of an article on Russian wikipedia - paste the URL of the article into translate.google.com and click on the link it puts into the "English" side. here it is, and if you click on a link it autotranslates that too - looks like your best bet is to click through to "Uprising on the Watchtower". 70.67.193.176 (talk) 14:20, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The Russian Wikipedia has a separate article on the mutiny: Восстание на «Сторожевом», which states:
 * В ходе этого эпизода один из бомбардировщиков по ошибке атаковал советский сухогруз, шедший из Вентспилса в Финляндию[2] [1] и повредил его осколками бомб. Вылет бомбардировщиков Як-28[3] был организован неудачно, за что почти весь руководящий состав авиадивизии и авиаполка получил предупреждение о неполном служебном соответствии от имени главнокомандующего ВВС[1].
 * Google translate turns this into:
 * During this episode, one of the bombers mistakenly attacked a Soviet cargo ship sailing from Ventspils to Finland[2][1] and damaged it with bomb fragments. The departure of the Yak-28[3] bombers was unsuccessfully organized, for which almost the entire leadership of the air division and air regiment received a warning of incomplete service compliance on behalf of the Air Force Commander-in-Chief[1].
 * --Lambiam 15:30, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Helian James (talk) 19:30, 21 October 2022 (UTC)