Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2022 September 19

= September 19 =

Coexistence of Corporeal/ incorporeal matter
What could be a few examples of such matter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Grotesquetruth (talk • contribs) 08:27, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * What do you mean by Corporeal matter and Incorporeal matter? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 10:35, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The literal meaning of the adjective incorporeal is, "not having a body", but the usual meaning is, "having no material form or physical substance". So then "incorporeal matter" is an oxymoron. The philosophy of matter has been a hotly debated subject though the centuries – that is, hotly debated by philosophers and hardly anybody else. See also the section . As commonly used, a substance refers to something material, but philosophers also use the term for non-material concepts. The philosopher Giordano Bruno, now considered a martyr for for free thought and speech, argued in his book De la causa, principio, et uno (1584) that matter is a single potency comprising both corporeal and incorporeal substances. On the other hand, he concedes that "the matter of corporeal things is different from that of incorporeal things". I find it difficult to see how Bruno meant the concepts of corporeality and incorporeality to be understood. --Lambiam 12:01, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * this is out of curiosity, but could incorporeal subjects as in intellectual creations be shared? Grotesquetruth (talk) 06:14, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Going back to the fourth century, the nature of Christ (homoousion or homoiousion) was a hotly debated topic on every street corner.  Hence the proverbial reference to the inclusion of "every jot and tittle".   What happened to Arius after he was rehabilitated led the general public to remark "I told you so":

…Then there is the “matter” of semantics, which is entirely incorporeal. DOR (HK) (talk) 13:51, 19 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Semantics is a cognitive process. The brain, presumably, is corporeal.  The mind may be incorporeal.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 15:27, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The mind is cognitive processes. Your sentence is nonsensical if you change out other body systems and their process "The stomach is corporeal, digestion may be incorporeal" "Legs are corporeal, walking may be incorporeal".  "The heart is corporeal, blood flow may be incorporeal".  -- Jayron 32 17:41, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * And yet, modern conceptions of mind further decentralize and extend its reach beyond the individual. Remove a smartphone from someone for an entire day and watch them go through withdrawals, as if part of their mind now exists in the cloud. Viriditas (talk) 23:57, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * FWIW: @Jayron32:  From our article on mind: Mind or mentality is usually contrasted with body, matter or physicality.  QED. Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 08:32, 20 September 2022 (UTC)

essence?
How true is it that any event/action of the past, acts as guides in recalibrating inefficiencies of the present economy? Grotesquetruth (talk) 14:19, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Your question is very vague, to the point of being impossible to answer. If you want to know about the effect of a specific event or action from the past, please ask about that.  -- Jayron 32 15:30, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The vagueness invites a highly specific response. Central bankers constantly review history to figure out what to do now, six days to six months before they actually know what’s going on. DOR (HK) (talk) 01:00, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * People who attempt recalibration to address inefficiencies of the present economy have little else to go by than experiences of the past. Since economic efficiency depends on a chaotic system, they are generally not very successful. --Lambiam 12:26, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Someone once quipped that being an economist is like driving a car forward while only looking in the rear-view mirror. Xuxl (talk) 13:03, 20 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Central bankers have had very good success in some economies, as evidenced by the very rapid increase in wealth (total or per capita), if that is an acceptable measure. And, they do so with both rear-looking views of the economy and ... theory. DOR (HK) (talk) 16:03, 20 September 2022 (UTC)


 * What impact does the Super Bowl winner have on recalibrating inefficiencies of the economy? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 03:40, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

People over shields
The comic book Asterix is set in a fictional Gaul village, that manages to escape the Rome conquest during the Gallic Wars because their druid prepares a magic potion that gives super strength. One of the characters is the chief Vitalstatistix, who is always transported over a shield carried by two guys. See here. The comic is focused on humor and satire, and there are frequent jokes about Vitalstatistix falling from the shield because of the bearers' incompetence.

Now seriously, is such a thing based on any custom from those ancient times, or is it completely made up by the comic to begin with? It seems quite impractical and dangerous for real-life, but being a satire it could also be that they laugh about the actual danger and impractibility of some real custom by showing it in an exaggerated and caricaturized manner. Cambalachero (talk) 19:01, 19 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Our article on the Merovingians says "The army also acclaimed new kings by raising them on its shields continuing an ancient practice that made the king leader of the warrior-band." Further details, including this 19th-century painting, at French wiki article. Now this is centuries after the purported time, but it shows not necessarily made up of whole cloth. What we'd really need is a source where the cartoon creators talk about their inspirations. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 19:31, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * (ec) From Tacitus, Histories, book IV : "Among the Canninefates there was a certain Brinno, a man of a certain stolid bravery and of distinguished birth. [...] Raised aloft on a shield after the national fashion, and balanced on the shoulders of the bearers, he was chosen general." --Wrongfilter (talk) 19:33, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It's probably the Merovingians one. The comic is not really meant to be historically accurate in the slightest anyway, so I wouldn't be surprised if they took things from other time periods and, as long as it sounds as something those crazy Gauls would do, throw it in. After all, there are 39 adventures, and they are all supposed to fit somewhere in the brief 8 years between the battle of Alesia and the death of Caesar. Cambalachero (talk) 00:00, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Don't underestimate Asterix and his creators. Here's a scholarly article on the practice and it mentions Vitalstatistix (Abraracourcix in the French original) and Brinno on the first page (the only page I have access to). --Wrongfilter (talk) 06:51, 20 September 2022 (UTC)
 * The article is mainly concerned with the Roman tradition of raising new emperors on the shield, starting in 361 with Julian, some four centuries after the adventures of Asterix. The article ascribes the physical elevation in this style of the new emperor to his Gallic and Germanic soldiers. For the rest, the article states that the ritual shield raising of new leaders was of Germanic origin. Other than the fictional Gauls of Asterix and the mention of the Gallic soldiers of Julian, there are no suggestions of this being a Gallic tradition. --Lambiam 12:16, 20 September 2022 (UTC)


 * There's also Jan Lievens - Brinio Raised on a Shield, a 17th century depiction of Brinno, who was the chief of the Germanic Cananefates tribe in AD 70. Alansplodge (talk) 12:33, 20 September 2022 (UTC)


 * Reference_desk/Archives/Humanities/2007_February_4, tho the link is no longer valid, try "Raising on a Shield: Origin and Afterlife of a Coronation Ceremony". fiveby(zero) 17:58, 20 September 2022 (UTC)