Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 August 17

= August 17 =

Whither Satanita?
The Satanita was a racing yacht built in 1893 for Mr A. D. Clarke and designed by Joseph M. Soper. She was said to be "the fastest cutter on a reach ever built". She is perhaps best remembered today for her rôle in an English contract law case. Our article does not mention her fate. A 2010 auction catalogue says she "was cut down to a yawl rig and sold into the Mediterranean in 1909 where it was owned by some colourful characters including Errol Flynn". I would like to know what happened to her, who were these other colourful characters, does she still survive? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 13:44, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Know this is not the years you asked about but FYI for what happened between the collision and the court case, it seems she was repaired very quickly and was racing again by July 30. See the mentions, especially the appendix, in King Edward Vii As A Sportsman which shows her racing the Britannia yacht regularly until the book stops listing the matches in April 1897. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:24, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A 1910 article says The Satanita was a fine and very powerful cutter, which originally belonged to Mr. C.D. Clarke and afterward to Sir Maurice Fitzgerald. Expect this was probably Sir John Peter Gerald Maurice Fitzgerald, 3rd Baronet of Valentia (we don't have an article). 70.67.193.176 (talk) 23:23, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * It was Sir Maurice Fitzgerald, 2nd Baronet of Valentia, 20th Knight of Kerry. DuncanHill (talk) 00:00, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * And Dunraven (owner of the yacht which Satanita had sunk) got his revenge on the yacht, if not Mr Clarke, by beating Satanita for the King's Cup in 1905. DuncanHill (talk) 00:06, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Excellent! Sorry about that, I guess I missed Sir Maurice among everyone else's muuch longer names :) It seems another person owned Satanita between A.D. Clarke and Sir Maurice: In Yachting, May 1907: Britannia raced along the Littoral in 1895, 1896 and 1897 against formidable opponents like Mr. Barclay Walker's Ailsa and Mr. C.D. Rose's Satanita. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:07, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a Richmond Cavendish cigarette card of "Satanita. Mr C. D. Rose" for sale on ebay right now! DuncanHill (talk) 22:05, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Here's an explanation of the yawl rig: ''The big racing yawls died out in the 'eighties but revived after 1896 when rating changes caused the splendid large cutters Satanita, Ailsa, Navahoe, Bona, Karian, Sybarita and the German Emperor's Meteor II, to dock their main booms and step a mizzen in order to win." 70.67.193.176 (talk) 23:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * June 6, 1908 in Country Life: A famous old racing yacht has recently been sold out of the country in Satanita, which has been purchased by an Italian yachtsman, Count Vinarcati. and She wound up her racing career successfully in 1906 by winning the cup presented by the King and that by the German Emperor on consecutive days at Cowes. This is also another source for the change to yawl rig. (Vinarcati possibly a misspelling of Vimercati?) But I know! All this and still no stories about colourful characters after 1909 :) 70.67.193.176 (talk) 23:48, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * But all fascinating stuff :) DuncanHill (talk) 00:00, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for an interesting problem to noodle with. One last thing - did find a slightly colourful story about Sir Maurice at least. From a 1907 book that seems to be a random miscellaney of information. In a section about animal superstitions: At Cowes, the Kaisser's Cup was won by the Satanita, with Sir Maurice Fitzgerald's black cat on board. 70.67.193.176 (talk) 17:10, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

Need help finding American colonial memoir
Hello, about five years ago, I began reading a pre- emancipation memoir in Wikipedia's free elibrary. I lost the link and was unable to finish. Now, I am teaching American History and would love to find the book. Much has changed on Wikipedia since I read a portion of the book, and I haven't the time to relearn my way to your catalogue. I have also forgotten the title, although I recall the author's name was in the title and I think the year in the 1800's was also in the title. This was the year he and a friend left Connecticut on horseback at his parents urging due to his loss of vigor. The parents had wanted him to stay at home and work on the family farm, but his interests were scholarly. A professor had encouraged him to seek a PhD. The boys headed south and their view of the world began to change as they encountered actual slaves in Virginia. Might this topic sound familiar to any historians out there? if so, please contact me via notifications here. My login name is teachertand. Thank you! Teachtand (talk) 19:32, 17 August 2023 (UTC)


 * According to Doctor of Philosophy, the first non-honorary PhD's in the U.S. were awarded in 1861, so there's a fairly narrow window between the start of studies leading to a PhD in the United States and the beginning of the Civil War. Also, the "Colonial period" in a U.S. context usually refers to the pre-1781 era... AnonMoos (talk) 19:45, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * P.S. By "Wikipedia's free library", you probably mean Wikisource... AnonMoos (talk) 19:51, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much for the clarifications. I did a Google search with the clues I left here, and feel certain that I found the author. My memories were not an exact match, but close enough. I have searched through this bibliography, but do not see any work by Weld defined as a memoir. Perhaps this was a collection of letters?
 * https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Dwight_Weld Teachtand (talk) 20:12, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There is certainly some fuzziness around the subject. Theological awe ? T.D. Weld photographic portrait used in the article, from Commons is only loosely dated "1800's". Perhaps someone will be able to extract more information from the following link. --Askedonty (talk) 20:52, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you! I will be following. Teachtand (talk) 21:39, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * As for being certain as to whether Weldon was the author or subject of the book, I cannot be certain that he was the author, but I felt as though I was reading a first person account. I hope to find some help at UVA. Seems I read they have a collection of his letters. Teachtand (talk) 22:29, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Was she queen?
Was Margaret O'Carrolla ruling queen/chief of an Irish chiefdom, or was she just married to a king/chief? Her article is not very clear about her actual social position except for noting that she was a noblewoman, which is not very clear in this case.--Aciram (talk) 21:14, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how well such details are known for this period, but my impression is that as wife of the King she would have officially ranked as Queen (which her article actually calls her), and would have been able under Brehon Law to exercise authority on her husband's behalf: events mentioned in her article imply that she actually did so.
 * This really needs an answer from a bona fide expert on the topic. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.140.169 (talk) 22:24, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There are a decent number of reliable sources in the article; did you check those? -- Jayron 32 12:44, 18 August 2023 (UTC)