Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 July 1

= July 1 =

Carmina Burana cover image
Does anyone recognize this collage on the cover of Carmina Burana (Orff) (~1960)? —Tamfang (talk) 00:05, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * There's some copies on discogs with different choirs but the same picture, and they credit the design to de:Fritz Blankenhorn (Grafiker). So, one possibility is that it has some connection to Orff or the Carmina Burana, another is that it's an original Blankenhorn collage. I have an impression of bits of Rembrandt, a photo of a park bench, and possibly a section of Karl Marx's beard. Card Zero  (talk) 00:34, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This back cover has "Cover collage: Phillip" and then the longish surname is of course not legible... Oh, the actual release page gives the name as Philip Featheringill. --Wrongfilter (talk) 09:44, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Well found! Discogs can show other covers by the same artist: this one has the same style, a collage with a man with black cutout pieces on his face. Card Zero  (talk) 10:01, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Looks like Featheringill ran a jazz label before going into the cover art business. and here. DuncanHill (talk) 10:12, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks all! I had supposed it pre-existed the recording. —Tamfang (talk) 20:13, 3 July 2023 (UTC)

Talk:Osman_I
Discussion on the authenticity of Ottoman graves, your input is welcome (there). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

World War I and World War II
Why First World War  has no prime villain like Hitler?

Why Japanese war crimes is not discussed like Nazi war crimes and the ruler of Japan is not hated like Hitler?

Why East Europeans and Ukrainians taking part in mass torture of other ethnic people of same race is not discussed much in media and films?

Why the role of non White soldiers in British Army and French Army is not shown in many many Hollywood movies based on world wars?

Why the mass rape of German women and Italian women after the end of war, is not shown in Hollywood movies based on World wars? HangChanDraft (talk) 10:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * For your second question, see Japanese war crimes. HiLo48 (talk) 10:15, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * 1) There are no prerequisites for "prime villains" for world wars.
 * 2) Afaik, Emperor Hirohito didn't institute an official policy of committing war crimes/atrocities; that was left up to the generals' and rank-and-file's discretion. And, not being systematic, it wasn't done on an industrial scale (the Rape of Nanking notwithstanding).
 * 3) Western media and cinema focus mostly on what the Western allies did; that's what Western readers and audiences prefer (and pay for).
 * 4) See above.
 * 5) See above. The mass rape of German women was perpetrated by the Russians. There was no mass rape of Italians afaik, since they (a) switched sides and (b) hadn't committed the atrocities the Germans did on the Eastern Front. Also, mass rapes aren't what most viewers want to see (and would be quite difficult to portray anyway). Clarityfiend (talk) 10:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * For your first question, Kaiser Wilhelm II was widely vilefied in the Allied countries amd there was considerable popular pressure to have him tried and executed. Unlike the Second World War however, the start of the war was an accumulation of associated events that led to a conflict that nobody really wanted. Alansplodge (talk) 11:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * It was necessary to keep Hirohito in place so as to persuade the Japanese to surrender and avoid a costly invasion of Japan. To that end, it was important for the Allies to portray Hirohito as a European-style constitutional monarch who had no power to influence government policy. The truth is still being debated; see Hirohito and Chrysanthemum taboo. Alansplodge (talk) 11:09, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * There's a drama-film on that, Emperor (2012 film). Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:47, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

You don't know about mass rape of Italians. Right from childhood, due to Hollywood movies showing only British fighting German, I didn't know about this. Marocchinate — Preceding unsigned comment added by HangChanDraft (talk • contribs) 11:03, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Mass rapes of c. 2 million Germans compared to c. 2000 Italians? Not the same thing, not by a long shot. Clarityfiend (talk) 08:44, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Discussion about Japan in world war starts and end with Hiroshima and Nagasaki and assumed they were victims, but recently I found that similar to German public, the Japanese were supporting what their army did like Japanese's schoolgirls celebrating mass rapes of Chinese.

This is worst like Nazi doctors- Unit 731

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4913066/japanese-troops-killing-british-sikh-pow-target-ww2-pictures/

Comfort women

I can list many more that I found recently, all whitewashed my USA media and Hollywood. Hollywood has made uncountable World war movies and they will continue making from Where Eagles Dare to saving Private Ryan.
 * Category:African-American war films? Alansplodge (talk) 11:25, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

The Japanese's war crimes are not less evil than Nazi. But Hollywood did not make big budget movies as they do for Germán villains. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HangChanDraft (talk • contribs) 11:13, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The Bridge on the River Kwai? Empire of the Sun? Unbroken? Card Zero  (talk) 12:36, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * King Rat? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:17, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Not restricted to Hollywood, but Category:Works about Japanese war crimes may have something you consider interesting. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 14:26, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * And just like the Nuremberg Trials were organized to judge German war crimes, the Tokyo War Crimes Trials served the same purpose regarding Japanese war crimes. Xuxl (talk) 15:49, 1 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Japan didn't have a single evil dictator figure (though Americans during WW2 certainly hated both Hirohito and Hideki Tojo), but it had cliques of militarists whose policies certainly had some evil aspects by the 1930s... AnonMoos (talk) 18:35, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * As for the role of non-white soldiers in mainstream war movies, 1917 (2019 film) was criticized by historians for over-emphasizing the participation of Black and Sikh soldiers in the British Army fighting in France. Cullen328 (talk) 21:08, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Good film, I thought. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:24, 2 July 2023 (UTC)
 * But the Indian Army infantry divisions were withdrawn from the Western Front in October 1915, leaving only the cavalry that were mainly held in reserve. See Indian Army during World War I. Vanishingly few ethnic Indians served in the British Army; large scale Indian migration to Britain began only in the 1960s. Similarly Dunkirk (2017 film) shows British Sikh officers, when the only Indian Army units in the BEF were four Animal Transport Companies . Alansplodge (talk) 12:29, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

"Why First World War has no prime villain like Hitler?" Because the Causes of World War I are entirely different from the Causes of World War II, and anyway Joseph Stalin was rather worse in his own way than the Austrian corporal. "Why the role of non White soldiers in British Army and French Army is not shown in many many Hollywood movies based on world wars?" You might as well watch Transformers movies for the information they contain about the real world. Hollywood = Entertainment + Profit ≠ Truth. MinorProphet (talk) 20:51, 4 July 2023 (UTC)