Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 July 22

= July 22 =

English
How do l read other languages 41.116.118.132 (talk) 18:08, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * By studying them. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:25, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Anusaaraka. InedibleHulk (talk) 03:56, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you asking how to read Wikipedia articles in other languages? -- Avocado (talk) 14:06, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Was Atatürk responsible for the Greek genocide?
According to Mustafa Kemal Atatürk: The rise of Turkish nationalism saw the Ottoman Empire perpetrate genocides against its Greek, Armenian and Assyrian subjects; while not directly involved, Atatürk's role in their aftermath has been controversial." while according to Greek genocide: It was perpetrated by the government of the Ottoman Empire led by the Three Pashas and by the Government of the Grand National Assembly led by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk and Atatürk is listed among the "Responsible parties" in Greek Genocide.

Do we have a good reference on the question to update these articles accordingly? a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 19:13, 22 July 2023 (UTC)


 * The Armenian genocide took place in 1915-1917, and at that time Atatürk was not the ruler of Turkey, but a rising army general who was mostly fighting WW1 battles against Britain, Australia, and Russia. That doesn't necessarily totally absolve him, but it means that he did not have primary responsibility... AnonMoos (talk) 03:41, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I missed the focus of your question, but the same answer applies to that part of the Greek genocide which happened during WW1. There's a section on the Atatürk article.  "Ottoman genocides (1913-1924) and Atatürk" which discusses such issues. AnonMoos (talk) 04:14, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hi @AnonMoos. Yes, there's a section but it says the opposite of Greek genocide and that's the point of my question: was Atatürk responsible or not? Do we have reliables sources? How can we reconcile these different versions in different articles?
 * In particular, May 19 is celebrated as the Commemoration of Atatürk, Youth and Sports Day in Turkey but as the Pontian Greek Genocide Remembrance Day in Greece. In both cases, the day commemorates Mustafa Kemal's landing in Samsun on May 19, 1919, which is regarded as the beginning of the Turkish War of Independence and as Atatürk's birthday. (Please note that according to Greek sources, Atatürk was involved in the genocide before he became the ruler of Turkey in 1920.)
 * I'm surprised that we don't have more content on this massive discrepancy between the Greek and Turkish views. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 06:29, 23 July 2023 (UTC)
 * See also Samsun deportations: On May 19, 1919, Mustafa Kemal (later Atatürk) landed in Samsun, far away from the war zone of the Greco-Turkish War in western Anatolia. The arrival of the former together with members of the former Young Turks movement, many of whom were wanted for crimes committed during World War I, marked the final phase of the Greek genocide and the extermination campaign of the local Greek communities continued the following years. a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 06:30, 23 July 2023 (UTC)