Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 July 6

= July 6 =

Monck after Laing's Nek
The picture Floreat Etona! by Elizabeth Thompson depicts an incident at the Battle of Laing's Nek, when Robert Elwes "shouted to another Eton boy (an Adjutant of the 58th whose horse had been shot), 'Come along Monck! Floreat Etona! We must be in the front rank!’ And he was shot immediately". Do we know anything more about Monck? Our article on the picture says he survived the battle. What became of him after? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 16:37, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This page of Notes and Queries calls him "The Hon. Richard Charles Stanley Mountjoy Monck, 2nd son of 4th Viscount Monck of Charleville, Enniskerry" and says that he died on 13 December 1892. (He's listed in the "Personal life" section of the article about his father that I linked in the preceding sentence.) Deor (talk) 17:13, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you, I wonder how he died. According to an earlier answer in N&Q "Monck told me later that there had been no mention of Eton at the time". DuncanHill (talk) 17:22, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * His dad has a WP article, Charles Monck, 4th Viscount Monck. Alansplodge (talk) 12:39, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * More detail at Visitation of Ireland (1897) p. 93 but no cause of death so probably natural causes? Alansplodge (talk) 12:46, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * This says that he was buried in Kensal Green Cemetery five days after his death, suggesting that he died in London or thereabouts. Alansplodge (talk) 12:40, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Consecrated part, plot 33704. Address given as Hamilton Gardens. DuncanHill (talk) 12:59, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Presumably the Hamilton Gardens in St Johns Wood near Lords Cricket Ground. Alansplodge (talk) 13:12, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I can find a death notice in the Dublin Daily Express and the Morning Post, but no report of the funeral, nothing in The Times. DuncanHill (talk) 14:40, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Percival Marling in Rifleman and Hussarrecalls Monk [sic] had two bullets through his helmet, has some comments on the staff and officers advance mounted, and mentions that Major Essex of the 75th was the only surviving staff officer and also one of the 5 surviving officers of Isandlwana. fiveby(zero) 16:18, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

John Brown's Body and Carl Gustaf's hag
According to our article Battle Hymn of the Republic the Finnish military are wont to sing Kalle-Kustaan muori makaa hiljaa haudassaan, ja yli haudan me marssimme näin ("Carl Gustaf's hag lies silently in her grave, and we're marching over the grave like this") to the tune of John Brown's Body. Who's the Carl Gustaf and who's his hag? I did think of Charles X Gustav & Hedwig Eleanora but why would it be them particularly? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 22:43, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * "Kalle-Kustaa could refer to two Swedish kings, Carl X Gustav (1654 - 1660) and the present king Carl XVI Gustaf, or it may refer to Kalle-Kustaa Korkki, Chief Inspector with the International Oil Company and a fictive character created by Aarne Haapakoski, a.k.a. Outsider, in 1945 for a beloved Finnish radio drama titled »The Adventures of Kalle-Kustaa Korkki«. Of course, neither of these references makes any sense and the true meaning of the song remains a mystery." --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 23:06, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * We may need Jungian analysis for this conundrum. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:30, 7 July 2023 (UTC)


 * There's Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim, the hero of Finnish Independence and the Winter War. Alansplodge (talk) 08:56, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think he was known as Gustaf though, not Carl Gustaf. DuncanHill (talk) 14:06, 7 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I suspect the practice of making up silly lyrics to other countries' national anthems (and similar) is quite widespread, though perhaps not widely publicised. In England, for example, some are wont to sing a scurrilous version of La Marseillaise, involving a Frenchman finding himself lacking toilet paper, and a whimsical rendering of the chorus of the Welsh Anthem Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, which puns Wales and whales, dating to the post-WW2 era when whale meat figured on British menus. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 90.197.177.243 (talk) 16:10, 7 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Another candidate is Carl Gustaf Armfeldt, onetime commander of the Finnish Army during the Swedish rule of Finland, who led the Carolean Death March of 1718-19, in which 60 percent of a force of 5,000 (mainly Swedish) soldiers froze to death. Alansplodge (talk) 18:44, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think he is by far the best candidate. DuncanHill (talk) 23:36, 7 July 2023 (UTC)

Unidentified 3000's BCE figure
I found this entry in PDB about a individual called Sanji but i have not been able to find anything about this historical figure. Did i just encountered a hoax? Trade (talk) 22:47, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, . That website is pretty much the opposite of a reliable source. Google Scholar comes up with nothing. Cullen328 (talk) 23:04, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

Who was Abdelkadir Chanderil?
Our article Death and state funeral of Winston Churchill says Abdelkadir Chanderil attended Churchill's funeral as President of Algeria. Our article List of heads of state of Algeria says Ahmed Ben Bella was President at the time. Our article List of dignitaries at the state funeral of John F. Kennedy has Abdelkadir Chanderil as President of the [Algerian] Republic, but again Ben Bella appears to have been President at the time. So, who was Abdelkadir Chanderil? Why did he get to go to these funerals? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 23:54, 6 July 2023 (UTC)


 * We have an abandoned and deleted Draft:Abdelkader Chanderli. --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 00:26, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * His obit (in French.) --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 00:29, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That suggests he was held in very high regard internationally. It may be that he represented the Algerian President at the funeral. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:07, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I think that's probably it. DuncanHill (talk) 22:44, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * But I now see that he isn't mentioned in the source that had been used to support his entry in the article, so I have removed him. DuncanHill (talk) 12:35, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
 * According to Britannica, Abdel Kader Chanderli (note spelling difference) was the Algerian Ambassador to the UK in 1962. Churchill died in 1965 so I suppose he was still in office then. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  00:27, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Is Britannica giving us different content? On that link I read that he was Ambassador of Algeria to the United Nations, 1962, and nothing about the UK. DuncanHill (talk) 01:03, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oops, my mistake. I was expecting to see that he had some official connection to the UK, and that's what I read. But it's not what's written. Sorry. --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  08:38, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The Algerian Ambassador to the UK in early 1965 appears to have been Laroussi Khalifa , so not our mystery attendee. Proteus (Talk) 15:39, 7 July 2023 (UTC)