Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 May 27

= May 27 =

Holiday on Chinese calendar for May 26, 2023
For May 26, 2023, my Chinese calendar shows that it is some sort of holiday, apparently some sort of Buddhist holiday. What holiday is it? 2601:18A:C500:E830:74AD:BE2A:E86B:2C54 (talk) 02:58, 27 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Possibly Vesak, though it's a little late. Our article doesn't seem to include a Chinese date for 2023. Shantavira|feed me 09:12, 27 May 2023 (UTC)


 * Is it possible for you to upload a screenshot of the page?  You're enquiring from Massachussetts - does it have a significant Jewish community?    I don't know where your calendar was printed, but yesterday and today is the observance of the Feast of Weeks (yesterday only in Israel). 78.141.40.98 (talk) 10:07, 27 May 2023 (UTC)


 * It was Buddha's birthday, which is a public holiday in Hong Kong. Matt's talk 12:02, 27 May 2023 (UTC)


 * How does Vesak differ from Buddha's Birthday? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:34, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Buddha's birthday is what it says (though he wasn't yet a Buddha). Vesak is the anniversary of the Buddha's Enlightenment. Shantavira|feed me 13:46, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * The Vesak article says "Also called	Buddha's Birthday". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 13:50, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * It's discussed in the lead of our article.... Matt's talk 14:53, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * And there is contradictory info in the Vesak article. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:16, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In Indonesia, Vesak is observed at the full moon about a week from now.  It appears that, unlike the Chinese calendar, the Buddhist calendar is not uniform.   Some countries use the metonic cycle, some don't.   The original version of Buddhist calendar stated "all years are elapsed/expired/complete years, thus their epochal year is year 0, not year 1, because a complete year has not elapsed during it."   As the current version notes a discrepancy in epoch between 545 BC and 544 BC it might be an idea to put that information back in.   An edit by  on 14 April 2013 (maybe to mark the new year) claims "In Myanmar, the difference between BE and CE can be 543 or 544 for CE dates, and 544 or 543 for BCE dates."   This is wrong on the face of it, because the ranges are identical, and since our article Burmese calendar says the country doesn't use the Buddhist era I don't feel qualified to correct it.   Perhaps someone with expertise could take a look? 79.70.62.37 (talk) 16:31, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Why is that wrong? The traditional lunisolar calendars of South, South-East Asia all straddle the Gregorian year. Per the Burmese calendar, the current ME year 1385 (Burmese Buddhist year 2567) spans from 17 April 2023 to 16 April 2024. So, the difference between 2567 and 2023/2024 is 544 or 543.
 * And the Burmese Buddhist calendar is still widely used in Myanmar. And what does that have to do with the Buddhist calendar straddling the Gregorian calendar 543 or 544 years apart!??? Hybernator (talk) 00:06, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think that "Buddha's birthday" is the right answer.
 * I'm the one who posted the original question. The lunar date (4/8) looks right, and the Chinese characters in the article look like what I remember seeing on my calendar. 2601:18A:C500:E830:5FE1:FAD1:4C23:CABD (talk) 21:36, 27 May 2023 (UTC)


 * So is Vesak also considered to be "Buddha's Birthday"? Or not? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:30, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * In Myanmar, Vesak/full moon of Kason is celebrated as the Buddha's birthday. This year, it fell on 26 May 2023. Hybernator (talk) 00:10, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * That makes things nice and confusing. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 01:53, 28 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Commonwealth countries celebrate the monarch's birthday mostly in June but on other dates in some places. And there's usually a public holiday and official honours announced. But their actual birthday is not then. Charles III was born on 14 November, Elizabeth II on 21 April, George VI on 14 December .... We deal with it pretty well. (Also, I doubt the actual date of Buddha's birth was recorded or has survived, so they have to make do.) --  Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:08, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * It has to do with how much time has passed. As I sometimes say, the birth of Muhammad is known within a year or two, and his death date is known to the day, while the birth and death dates of Jesus are known to within a few years, but it's disputed as to which century Buddha lived in, and disputed as to which millennium Zoroaster lived in. AnonMoos (talk) 02:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * (drafted before JackofOz's comment) Our article Buddha's birthday says the event may be commemorated either on the eighth of Vaisakha or on the full moon of that month.  So it appears that he has two birthdays, just as King Charles III has one on 14 November and an "official birthday" on the third Saturday in June (although our article King's Official Birthday rather confusingly places it on "the third weekend in June").   From the information given by Hybernator, the BE year 545 began in April AD 1, so in the Christian era the difference between BE and CE is 544 or 543.   The BE year 544 began in April BC 1, so in that year the difference was 542 or 543.   The BE year 543 began in April, BC 2, so that year the difference was 540 or 541.   You cannot make the blanket statement, as Hybernator did, that in the pre-Christian era the difference is 544 or 543.   It is comparing apples and oranges.   Hybernator goes on to say that in Burma the Buddha's birthday is celebrated at the full moon of "Kason", i.e. in the middle of the month, which corresponds to the Hindu month Vaisakha.   Then he gives a date, 26 May 2023.   But 26 May is not the full moon of Vaisakha.   Working from the fact that the Holi festival fell on 8 March and comes two months before the full moon of Vaisakha, the full moon of Vaisakha, assuming no intercalation (Adhika-masa) fell on 3 May, which was a public holiday according to the Burmese government website.   26 May is not listed as a public holiday. 78.141.40.98 (talk) 12:19, 29 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I should have added more context: Vesak isn't celebrated only as his birthday. At least in Burmese Buddhist tradition (and probably all Theravada traditions), the Buddha was born, achieved enlightenment, and died on the full moon day of Kason / Vaiśākha. Hybernator (talk) 18:23, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Definition of North and South Atlantic
I was surprised to learn that the IHO defines the two parts of the Atlantic Ocean using the Equator, resulting in a little wedge of the North Atlantic extending underneath the Gulf of Guinea. Is this definition universal, or do some authorities use a (seemingly) more natural boundary like this one? Lazar Taxon (talk) 16:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Our article Atlantic Ocean claims "The Atlantic Ocean is divided in two parts, by the Equatorial Counter Current, with the North(ern) Atlantic Ocean and the South(ern) Atlantic Ocean split at about 8°N." citing an archived US Navy webpage. DuncanHill (talk) 16:35, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This chart shows a west-to-east "Guinea Current", in the Gulf of Guinea well below 8°N, and an east-to-west "Equatorial Current", separated from the Guinea Current almost at the Equator. --Lambiam 09:30, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * The narrowest width of the Atlantic in that part of the world is apparently between the coast of South America at about 5 degrees S (Brazil) and the coast of Africa at about 8 degrees N (Sierra Leone), if that means anything. AnonMoos (talk) 11:55, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

Perhaps the IHO was measuring from the bottom 99%, rather than from the top 1% ? Just a thought ... DOR (ex-HK) (talk) 21:36, 28 May 2023 (UTC)


 * In general, boundaries between named bodies of water are ill defined. Where is the separation between the Celtic Sea and The Channel? The notion that the separation between the North and South Atlantic is along a parallel, or even along a geodesic such as the shortest connection between the coasts of South America and Africa, is a convenient but otherwise arbitrary convention. Among all the possibilities, using the Equator as the defining line is an obviously attractive choice. --Lambiam 08:05, 29 May 2023 (UTC)