Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 October 24

= October 24 =

Book of Tobit
I seem to remember some reference to a prominent person referring to the Book of Tobit in the Biblical Apocrypha as the "stupid story of Tobias and his dog". I found a mention of that in Google Books: Palestine: The Bible History of the Holy Land by John Kitto (1841). However, Kitto puts that phrase in quotation marks, implying that he was referring to someone else's judgment:
 * We are certainly not among those who would like to repose much belief in "the stupid story of Tobias and his dog;" ....

And Kitto isn't prominent enough that I would have taken notice of his comment anyway. Does anyone know who Kitto was quoting? -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:59, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure Kitto was quoting from memory the 1810 preface to Adam Clarke's edition of the Bible, in which Clarke says Aristaeus' account of the writing of the Septuagint is "worthy to be classed with the tale of Bel and the Dragon, and the stupid story of Tobit and his Dog". You'll find it here. --Antiquary (talk) 09:10, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I just read the book of Tobit.  Apart from his dog, it mentions Adam.   His dog accompanies him on his travels .   Maybe that's where he got the idea. 88.111.185.64 (talk) 11:00, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * In the story, the dog was actually Tobias'. Note also that "Book of Tobias" is an older name for the Book of Tobit. --Lambiam 11:18, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Tobias and his dog is on my to-do list, mainly for the art. Note that the dog does not appear in the Hebrew bible texts, or later Jewish translations, but is in the Septuagint and Christian translations. Johnbod (talk) 14:49, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Antiquary, as the paragraph he referenced from Clarke is indeed something I had read before. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:32, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The whole book does not appear in the Hebrew Bible texts, or later Jewish translations. Nyttend (talk) 21:35, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not in the Masoretic Canon, for sure, but there are Hebrew texts - see the Jewish Encyclopaedia article (whose plot summary also omits the dog). After that was written, fragments in Aramaic and Hebrew turned up in the Dead Sea Scrolls. Johnbod (talk) 22:14, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, you mean later Jewish translations of other texts? I was thinking you meant later Jewish translations of the Hebrew Bible.  Nyttend (talk) 04:21, 28 October 2023 (UTC)

Caroline Woodley
I just received a leaflet for this lady, who is the Labour candidate in the upcoming mayoral by-election. She is currently one of our local councillors. Should she win, can she fulfil both roles, or will there have to be a by-election? In councils which retain the nineteenth-century setup the mayor is necessarily a councillor, but under the new directly elected mayor and cabinet scheme the rules may be different. 2A00:23C5:E103:3301:A035:E388:ACB8:6AD1 (talk) 13:28, 24 October 2023 (UTC)


 * I cannot immediately find a definitive answer - but note that when the current mayor of Bedofrd was elected in May this year there was a by-election in the ward he had represented as a councillor, and a new councillor was elected the following month. 2A00:23C5:2223:BC01:6480:CA7C:A5F8:D648 (talk) 16:35, 24 October 2023 (UTC)


 * A person cannot sit as both a local councillor and an elected mayor for the same local authority. If they are already an elected councillor at the authority and are subsequently elected as mayor, their office as councillor will become vacant. Equally, if someone stands as a candidate and is elected to both offices, their election as councillor will be disregarded and the office of councillor will be deemed to be vacant.
 * The Electoral Commission - Mayoral elections in England - Guidance for candidates and agents quoting the Local Democracy, Economic Development and Construction Act 2009. Alansplodge (talk) 15:49, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * BTW, the person in question is a councillor in the London Borough of Hackney, lest you be wondering where in the world we are. Alansplodge (talk) 15:52, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Is this a logical fallacy?
Is it a logical fallacy to argue for the truth or falsity of a position by deliberately defining key terms in a way that forces said position to be true or false? If so, which logical fallacy is it? Primal Groudon (talk) 15:33, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't consider it a logical fallacy without looking at the nature of the terms and logical structure. The same question could be opposed to an axiom of choice, looking at it enough superficially. --Askedonty (talk) 15:55, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Not really seeing what connection you see here. --Trovatore (talk) 00:12, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Begging the question... AnonMoos (talk) 16:08, 24 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Persuasive definition &#32;Bookku   (talk) 16:25, 24 October 2023 (UTC)