Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2023 September 25

= September 25 =

Bust of Louis Pierre Vieillot


Louis Pierre Vieillot features the above image of a bust of the subject, described in the source being:

"From a bust in the Division of Birds, Paris Museum (Courtesy Dr. J. Berlioz)"

That refers to what is now the National Museum of Natural History, France (where Jacques Berlioz worked at the time of publication). Where is the bust now, and can we identify the uncredited sculptor? Is there an online catalogue record for it? Is it on public display? Searching the museum's website has proved fruitless; maybe a French speaker will have more luck. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:19, 25 September 2023 (UTC)


 * It appears on p97 of this pdf of Argutorio 47 (I semestre 2022) with some additional information, but my Spanish (or Portuguese?) is non-existent. -- Verbarson talkedits 21:03, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Google translate says it's Spanish and the caption is "Photograph of the bust of Louis Pierre Vieillot (1748-1830) in the bird division of the Paris Museum, the only image that Get to know this prolific and forgotten French ornithologist". DuncanHill (talk) 21:32, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Good example of Google translate suckery. "Only known image of this prolific and forgotten..." --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 23:11, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * How else would you translate única imagen que se conoce de este prolífico y olvidado ornitólogo francés? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:18, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Certainly not "the only image that get to know this prolific..." --jpgordon&#x1d122;&#x1d106;&#x1D110;&#x1d107; 14:25, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't you just love it when someone says "that's wrong, I could do better, but I won't"? DuncanHill (talk) 14:28, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Except he did in his previous post:
 * "that Get to know" is not the same as
 * "known image of". {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 46.65.228.22 (talk) 23:28, 26 September 2023 (UTC)

To answer part of the original question, online catalogues of French national collections are often very good - e.g. Joconde, billed as le catalogue collectif des collections des musées de France - but that does not help with this.

The Muséum national d'histoire naturelle itself has several online catalogues. A little clicking around in Découvrir / Nos Collection then Nos ensembles de collections suggests you want to look in their collections d’œuvres d’art et d’objets which are found in the catalogue Calames.

The entry for the bust (copied below) does not say much, apart saying it is in plaster, dated 1825, and was in the bird and mammal lab in 1942, under catalogue number MNHN.OA.764. The publication of a photograph in The Auk in 1948 suggests it survived the Second World War. Cote : MNHN.OA.764 Date : 1825 Description physique : Plâtre. Description : Buste en ronde-bosse d'homme à l'antique, nu-tête tournée vers la droite, sans indication de vêtement ; avec base, sur piédouche. Daté : 1825. Lieu de conservation : Laboratoire des Mammifères et Oiseaux en 1942 Oeuvre : Louis Jean Pierre Vieillot Sujet :	Vieillot, Louis Jean Pierre (1748-1831) Good luck finding more, particularly the name of the sculptor. The date and catalogue number may assist with further research, but I suspect there were several people creating classicised portrait busts in Paris at this time. You could try contacting the museum to ask directly. Theramin (talk) 21:50, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That's very helpful, thank you. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 19:05, 2 October 2023 (UTC)