Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 February 23

= February 23 =

Barbro Hörberg
I'm currently working on a draft for this Swedish composer. Could anyone help me find sources which document her? Ominateu (talk) 21:26, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
 * sv:Barbro Hörberg. 2A02:C7B:121:5300:E4C1:C46:D21E:3A31 (talk) 14:29, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Wepl I was thinking sources which didn't come from the Swedish version. Like a biography which documents her or an interview. Ominateu (talk) 14:41, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It seems like there's a TV biography of hers from 2014, named after one of her most famous songs "Med ögon känsliga för grönt". See here and here . Xuxl (talk) 15:00, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * @Ominateu Not a a lot of hits, but maybe something you can use: Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:29, 26 February 2024 (UTC)

Oldest wheel still in use
The over 5000 year old Ljubljana Marshes Wheel is the oldest extant wooden wheel, but it was excavated from the remains of a stilt house. What's the oldest wheel (of any material) that is still "in use"? Or at the very least, what are some very old wheels still currently being used for their original purpose? GalacticShoe (talk) 22:02, 23 February 2024 (UTC)


 * One would need to take the Ship of Theseus factor into account. Oldest with all/part original materials, or oldest in (fairly continuous) use though repaired? {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 176.24.45.226 (talk) 13:27, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
 * That's a good point. Given AnonMoos's point below, I'm actually going to go with the second definition, although bonus points if there are still traces of original material in some form. GalacticShoe (talk) 09:23, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The Ship of Perseus question covers a lot of different things. For example, the venerable baseball park Wrigley Field has been around for going on 110 years, but between expansions and partial reconstructions, there is actually not much of the original left. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:44, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Wheels which go places are subject to wear and tear, travel incidents, and updating of technology. You might have better luck with things that revolve in place, such as water wheels, Archimedes' screw, etc. AnonMoos (talk) 21:05, 24 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Whilst not "still in use": Our article on the Potter´s wheel mentions the 3rd millennium BC as a date of invention of this technique.  A stone potter's wheel found at the Sumerian city of Ur in modern-day Iraq has been dated to about 3129 BC,[4] but fragments of wheel-thrown pottery of an even earlier date have been recovered in the same area.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 09:08, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * This makes me wonder what the oldest continuously-used pottery wheel out there is. I highly doubt that whoever owns it is aware of its status, and I also doubt that an "heirloom pottery wheel" would be much-touted. GalacticShoe (talk) 21:17, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * From 2600-1900 BC this terracotta toy, has intact wheels. Is its wooden axle a replacement? It likely is. Nevertheless the toy certainly appears it can still be played with (if one is allowed to). Modocc (talk) 15:02, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


 * THe Lord Mayor of London's State Coach is still used regularly (once a year) and dates from 1711. Not sure if the wheels have been replaced (there was a major overhaul in 1952), but the total mileage must be quite low.
 * The Laxey Wheel in the Isle of Man is "the largest surviving original working waterwheel in the world" but only dates from 1854. Alansplodge (talk) 18:32, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Salisbury Cathedral clock dates from "about 1386", and "the striking train of the clock is believed to be original." I'm sure that includes a number of wheels. The article also has a section on the "Oldest working clock" claim with pointers to potentially older clocks, and a discussion of the actual date of the Salisbury clock. -- Verbarson talkedits 20:14, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The mid-14th century Ottery St Mary astronomical clock was recently restored. The Torre del Mangia's clock dates to 1360. I could not find information about its condition. Modocc (talk) 20:20, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Chesterfield, Derbyshire has an early 14th century treadwheel crane, though it probably is not 'in use'. Guildford has a 17/18th century crane last used about 1960. -- Verbarson talkedits 20:25, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * In regards to the State Coach, Croford Coachbuilers' website possibly suggests that they replaced the wheels as recently as 2016, if I am not reading this wrong. GalacticShoe (talk) 21:31, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note that I still count this as an extremely Ship of Theseused example, where even though the wheels were completely replaced, in terms of purpose and usage they're the "same" wheel. GalacticShoe (talk) 21:34, 25 February 2024 (UTC)


 * There are wheels on the golden model of a chariot that forms part of the Oxus treasure… which dates from the 5th century BC. One could argue that its “original purpose” was to be a work of art (and if so, it is still serving that purpose). Blueboar (talk) 20:54, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Although this is a good example (and I'm more than willing to count art as a usage), I'm realizing now that I should probably modify my criteria, since I failed to account for the fact that people can excavate wheeled objects (which would make the Ljubljana marsh wheels oldest if you simply roll them around.) I think for now I'm going to have to specify that if an object is "rediscovered" (e.g. excavated or simply found somewhere after a subjectively prolonged period of time of unuse), then I'll count age from time of recovery. In other words, I guess what I'm looking for is oldest wheel by time of relatively continuous usage. GalacticShoe (talk) 21:38, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * One could argue that, during the years when no one saw it, it was not serving that purpose. Or one might not. —Tamfang (talk) 00:00, 26 February 2024 (UTC)