Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 February 28

= February 28 =

A bottle of fifteen
In the Prosper Mérimée short stopry 'The Blue Room', an Englishman has ordered a bottle of port in a French hotel. The hotel has run out, but the landlord will not lose the sale, exclaiming "I will find him his bottle of port! Bring me a bottle of ratafia, a bottle of fifteen, and a decanter of brandy" he proceeds to manufacture the "port". What is fifteen? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 02:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)


 * 1815 vintage? 15% ABV? Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 03:11, 28 February 2024 (UTC)


 * In the French original, it's "une bouteille à quinze". Looking up that particular phrase, it seems it referred to "une bouteille à quinze sous", i.e. just about the cheapest bottle of wine one could buy in a drinking establishment at the time. Mérimée's story comes up all over the search results, but there are other instances that point to "quinze sous" as the correct meaning, for example in "Histoire de Robert Macaire" by Louis-François Raban. Xuxl (talk) 14:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thank you, that would make perfect sense. DuncanHill (talk) 18:09, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * A French Franc was apparently worth only about US$0.20 in 1900, so fifteen sous (= 75 centimes) would be $0.15, or in Sterling about 6d (= 2½ new pence) if I've done the maths right. Alansplodge (talk) 21:28, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Assuming you mean $0.15 in 1900 US dollars rather than modern day dollars, this would be around $5.53 today. GalacticShoe (talk) 21:36, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, 15 cents in 1900. Alansplodge (talk) 22:26, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I haven't priced Two Buck Chuck lately but I expect $5.53 would be more than enough for a 750 ml bottle. Of course that relies on a production and distribution model that didn't exist in 1900, which is one of the many reasons that comparing prices across large time intervals is ... fraught. --Trovatore (talk) 21:49, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Funny enough that was the very first thing I thought of, and I found a Reddit post from I think around 4 months ago that had the price of Chuck listed as roughly 4 bucks. But yeah, I also imagine that the wine economy in 1900s France would have worked probably at least somewhat differently from the wine economy today. GalacticShoe (talk) 22:02, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * A quick Google finds this French plonk for €3.95 for a 75cl bottle. Wine is heavily taxed in the UK, but you don't get much under £6. Alansplodge (talk) 22:33, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Note that Mérimée's story was published in 1866 - well before 1900. The other citations I found were also from the middle of the 19th Century. Xuxl (talk) 14:49, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Apologies, the earliest edition Google could find me was 1902. Alansplodge (talk) 13:04, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
 * With a status of the Englishman vs. Paris slightly evolving in the meantime ( La dame de fer taking its toll by the way). The assorted beverage anecdote 1900: workers-a-bicycle. --Askedonty (talk) 18:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Being partial to port, I'll have to obtain some ratafia and then try out this recipe! {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 2.126.225.254 (talk) 19:39, 29 February 2024 (UTC)

What do reliable sources say was Pim Fortuyn's last government appointed or elected office?
Pim Fortuyn was a Dutch politician assassinated in May 2002. I was wondering what was his government office. In the article Pim Fortuyn, I read

In the article Government of Rotterdam, Fortuyn is listed as the chief executive for the period 2002-2006 (he died in 2002), but there is not citation for the info. In the article Livable Rotterdam, he is listed as leader of a coalition that won the 2002 elections. But I am still left with the doubt, what do reliable sources say was Pim Fortuyn's last government appointed or elected office? Regards, Thinker78  (talk) 03:06, 28 February 2024 (UTC)


 * He was the political leader of the largest party forming the city's governing coalition, but that's not an official office. I've never heard the term "chief executive" as part of the government of a city; the closest would be mayor, but that was Ivo Opstelten. I don't think (but am not entirely sure) that Pim Fortuyn was wethouder (alderman, more or less), he was too busy with campaigning for national politics, so his only office would have been member of the municipal council. PiusImpavidus (talk) 11:04, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The article does not use the term "chief executive" but "city executive", which for a city means the same as "municipal executive", being the executive board formed by the mayor and aldermen. The mayor, appointed by the Queen, was not a member of Livable Rotterdam. Of the five aldermen, three were members of Livable Rotterdam: Rabella de Faria, Marco Pastors and Wim van Sluis. --Lambiam 16:34, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * As far as I'm aware, Fortuyn never held any office. --Lambiam 16:43, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * When the party he led won the city elections, was he set to become councilman, or was his function was merely within the party and not as candidate? Regards, Thinker78  (talk) 23:07, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Dutch wikipedia mentions that he became fraction leader (no source, but it matches my memories), which implies that he took his seat as member of the municipal council. PiusImpavidus (talk) 09:55, 29 February 2024 (UTC)