Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 January 5

= January 5 =

Mentally ill MP in 1861
In the 25th May 1861 issue of Punch 'Essence of Parliament' (page 209) we read "MR. ROEBUCK had been informed and believed that in the minority against the Repeal of the Paper Duty, there appeared a gentleman who was not mentally qualified to take part in any business at all. The Member for Sheffield brought the subject before the House, and an explanation of the case was offered by a friend of the individual in question. It was stated that the mind of that person had been perturbed, and that he had voluntarily retired to an asylum, into which he could not be received until two medical men had given a certificate couched in language so strong as perfectly to justify inquiry whether the document were a formality or a representation of facts. But it was also stated that the Member alluded to was placed under no restraint, and choosing to come from the Asylum to the House, did so, conversed rationally, voted, and went away quietly. Mr. Punch, having recorded the circumstances, leaves an unpleasant subject, with the single remark that though, as it happened, the registration of the vote was of no consequence, it will be well that whippers-in on both sides use sound discretion when any similar case again arises. In these days people are not so reverent as of old, and cause for a certain kind of talk should be avoided. The rule is not now quicquid delirant * * * plectuntur Achivi, in regard to Kings, Lords, or Commons." What I would like to know is - who was the individual in question, and did he make any kind of recovery? Thank you, DuncanHill (talk) 03:15, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * A little googling finds this blog entry, which identifies the MP in question as Andrew Steuart, MP for Cambridge. That's all I have for now. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 12:33, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * A little more here in The Spectator, and here in The Lancet, both from 1861. No news as to his later health, although he retired from the Commons in 1863, and lived to be 82. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 12:46, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Here he is in the divorce courts in 1870. Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 13:11, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The Edinburgh Academy Register mentions him as "Dux of the Whole School" in 1838, and mentions a son, George Alexander, who died in a shooting accident at Winchester in 1866. There's a little more detail in the Winchester College Register, here.


 * Jean-de-Nivelle (talk) 10:39, 7 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you. DuncanHill (talk) 21:47, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Captain D'Agoust
This from May 6, 1788 didn't show him properly. Can you search if exist another one who showed only him very full in face, and upload it on commons? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.103.13 (talk) 14:20, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * That's not a painting, and not "from" 1788 - it's a much later illustration in a book by Francois Guizot, born 1787. As the image file says. I expect the face is imagined. Commons has no other image of him. Johnbod (talk) 04:01, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * But can you search for another one in other sites? 193.207.171.173 (talk) 06:55, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * You can, but it must be appropriately licensed to upload it to Commons. Shantavira|feed me 09:12, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, but can you help me to find one if really exist? Thank you. 95.248.237.42 (talk) 09:43, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Hundred Days (1815)
What were the Royal regiments send by Louis XVIII to arrest Napoleon, and their respective commanders? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.103.13 (talk) 15:00, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Easily accessible we have Histoire du Consulat et de l'Empire (19/20), by Adolphe Thiers with a politically not entirely neutral tone. The military were in a shamble following various vicissitudes after the Vienne Treaty. Thus Louis was not acting as a war leader directly but delegated the function to the Comte d'Artois (who could have possibly be designed a candidate for the throne himself by his supporters). The Comte was to be the principal leader assisted by the Duc of Berry, the Duc of Angoulême and the duc of Orleans; the Marechal Macdonald (small d) would be assisting the Duc of Angoulême and the Marechal Ney was to be on his own. Marechal Macdonald then gathers the 20e et 24e de ligne and the 13e dragoons. Ney gathers five infantry regiments: the 15e léger, the 81e de ligne, the 76e, the 60e and 77e, three cavalry regiment 5th dragoon, 8th chasseurs and the 6th hussard and he is also expecting the 4e de ligne and the 6e léger for later. Together with general Lecourbe and general de Bourmont he's adding to it the 60e and 77e de ligne, also the 5th  dragoons and the 8e chasseurs. Near Paris the duc de Berry gathered various royalist supportes including the Gardes Nationales. Macdonald's troops show no will to fight when Napoleon arrives in Lyon; Ney some days later turns to Napoleon without his own troops explicitly displaying disaprovement. Thiers doesn't mention the 15th de ligne which I found rallied Napoleon early, thus there must be missing various units which were activated locally by Prefects. News being propagated through the Chappe telegraph specific instructions were not necessary regarding foreign intruders (Napoleon was monarch at Elba.) Hope this helps. --Askedonty (talk) 18:11, 6 January 2024 (UTC)

Ancient regime in France
In 1789, before the revolution, where was the Military Tribunal and who were its judges? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.207.103.13 (talk) 21:55, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * A Royal officer, the Prévôt des Maréchaux, who was also tasked with matters related to logistics, usually itinerant similarly to other Marshalls and various other imperial officers around the world and history seated at the next semi-important town or city near of the related occurrence and proceeded assisted by his lieutenants, although one of those lieutenants could be the one presiding instead. Those, and the prévôt were judicially required to adequately consult local or more general civil jurists in accordance to the case considered however. Indemnisation of the possible victims of a given misdeed could be dependent on local jurisprudence, or the case could be otherwise related to other civil offenses. The supreme headquarters of the Prévôté originally under the Constable of France was the fr:Table de marbre au Palais, in Paris. --Askedonty (talk) 07:53, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, then who was the head of Table de marbre in Paris in 1789, before the revolution? 95.248.237.42 (talk) 09:44, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * It depends. The table (of black marble), was occasionally used for gala dinners (La table de marbre). Askedonty (talk) 09:53, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * https://www.napoleon-series.org/military-info/organization/etat/c_etattitle.html 95.248.237.42 (talk) 10:03, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Good choice. The table itself was destroyed in a fire in 1618 but La table de marbre says that in June 1629 a royal decree transfered the Constable charge to the marshalcy by order of seniority thus in 1789 the charge might have been held, according to your source by Louis-Georges-Erasme de Contades, Maréchal de Contades, Commander in Chief for the Alsace province. Note that regarding military judicial matters, such level would have been concerned only with appeals, most of which would have been blocked or treated at much lower hiererachical levels. --Askedonty (talk) 10:24, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, closed. Can you help me also with "Captain D'Agoust"? 95.248.237.42 (talk) 10:34, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately no. There are too many d'Agoult at the same period both in the gardes and occasionally captains. The image of only one is easily accessible: Antoine-Jean. According to fr:Famille d'Agoult, two d'Agoult are in the gardes du roy and of age, relatively to the episode, but Jean Antoine is a Count and Antoine-Jean a Viscount, then Louis-Fouquet de Vincens who is their elder by 20 years and would be 51 in 1788 may match better Carlyle's description. Of interest is that pamphlet directed against an attempt at the wrongfull arrestation of members of Parliament by a Captain d'Agoult sent by autocratic ministers Siège of the Palais; alternatively, Kidnapping of the delegates (fr) in the context of a struggle over authority between parliament and the government (see: Jean-Jacques Duval d'Eprémesnil), but the pamphlet is not illustrated. --Askedonty (talk) 12:38, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, closed. Can you help me also with "Hundred Days (1815)"? 95.248.237.42 (talk) 12:43, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * (Answer displaced to the relevant paragraph) Askedonty (talk) 18:11, 6 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ok, closed. 193.207.167.111 (talk) 18:01, 6 January 2024 (UTC)