Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 January 7

= January 7 =

Was Eliza Jumel's attorney Hamilton Jr.?
The article on Eliza Jumel reads in part "The apocryphal story is that she was represented by Alexander Hamilton, Jr., the son of Alexander Hamilton, whom Burr shot and killed in a duel years earlier. What actually happened was that Hamilton Jr. held her assets in a paper only trade during the divorce, returning the assets to her later. He was not her attorney."

The article on Alexander Hamilton Jr. says "Hamilton represented Eliza Jumel against her husband Aaron Burr during two years of divorce proceedings"

Seems contradictory, and not only do they both cite the same book by Ron Chernow, but they cite the same page. The preponderance of other fairly reliable sources like the NY Law institute seems to suggest Hamilton was her lawyer. — THORNFIELD HALL (Talk) 09:51, 7 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Some book sources: "Alexander Hamilton Jr. was Eliza Burr's lawyer in the divorce proceedings." "the divorce was finalized by Jumel's lawyer, Alexander Hamilton, Jr." I could not gain access to any edition of the book by Chernow. --Lambiam 22:20, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Poland 1939 WWII Air Raid Codes
Looking for a list of air raid codes by city that were broadcast on Polish radio when WWII started. Albert-family (talk) 15:37, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

Cultural amnesia
I've noticed since about 2016 or so, a very strange, almost Orwellian phenomenon that I call cultural amnesia, but I suspect there is a more accurate term in use by historians, psychologists, sociologists, and others, and that my ad hoc term doesn't come close to the real thing. My question is, what is the real term called by academics? I will very briefly explain the kind of idea I'm talking about by using a simple, current, and real-world example, and let others guide me in the right direction as to what this idea is called: Today on Reddit, there was a very popular discussion about how people were outraged that resellers were buying up all the cakes in Costco, leaving few of them available for the general public. This phenomenon has been covered by the mainstream media. The thing is, Costco was founded in 1983 as a wholesale corporation. Businesses have been buying products at Costco for the express purpose of reselling them for forty years. Yet, just within the last year, vast numbers of the general public have forgotten this fact, which is why I use it as an example of cultural amnesia. But it also indicates other things going on, in my mind. Customer demographics change over time, and younger people might have forgotten the original purpose of Costco and have grown up thinking it was a different kind of company based on their own personal experience. My overall point, however, is that this kind of "amnesia" is happening all over, and I see it quite often. Can anyone else explain what I'm seeing in terms that are already in use? Viriditas (talk) 20:40, 7 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Rather than amnesia, which means loss of memory, this is simply ignorance and trolling, which is very common on Reddit and every other free-for-all forum. Shantavira|feed me 09:46, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't know a name for this, but it's not new. George Santayana famously wrote "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" well over 100 years ago. --ColinFine (talk) 15:25, 8 January 2024 (UTC)


 * I don't think the phenomenon is particularly strange. And definitely not 'Orwellian'. Just a part of culture as discourse. To take a random example from politics, if you are a Pakistani, discussing the struggle for independence against the Raj during the earlier part of the 20th century, it is easier to do so if you 'forget' that those arguing for it were doing so for an independent India, and not for a Pakistan that nobody had imagined at the time (See Mukulika Banerjee, The Pathan Unarmed: Opposition & Memory in the North West Frontier, School of American Research Press, 2000, for an extensive discussion on this). And yes, as the older generation 'forgets' this, as no longer politically expedient, the next generation simply takes it more or less for granted that what they have now is what they wanted then. Culture isn't something people passively absorb, it is something they actively recreate and reshape through their own participation in it. And do so selectively, remembering what is useful, and forgetting what is best forgotten, or what simply no longer matters. We all do this on an individual level, so it isn't at all surprising that collectively the same thing happens. AndyTheGrump (talk) 16:08, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

The term recency illusion tends to be heard specifically in relation to language usage, but really is broad enough to cover what's being asked about. --142.112.220.136 (talk) 08:28, 9 January 2024 (UTC)

Never rebuilt Japanese cities
Are there examples in history of Japanese settlements (cities, village, etc...) destroyed by natural catastrophes and never rebuilt? Thank you. 79.42.51.153 (talk) 21:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * See Ghost town.  General Ization Talk  21:32, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * See also 13th century in Japan. Nichiren talks a lot about natural catastrophes at that time, so there's probably a lot. Viriditas (talk) 21:33, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm having trouble finding examples of permanently abandoned settlements, for example Tagajō, a regional administrative centre of Mutsu Province in the 9th Century, was destroyed by the 869 Jogan earthquake and tsunami. The remains were covered by sediments dated to the 10th century but the city was rebuilt. The Unzen disaster levelled large areas of Shimabara and Higo across the Ariake Sea but didn't stop them being rebuilt. I'll keep looking but most settlements are located for a reason and that doesn't change even when there's a disaster. Mikenorton (talk) 22:07, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Wouldn’t an exception be coastal towns or low lying areas such as flood zones that are inundated? There’s many examples of abandoned settlements that were permanently flooded. Viriditas (talk) 22:12, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Possibly smaller settlements, but in another example, the small coastal city of Kamaishi, Iwate was completely destroyed by the tsunami from the 1896 Sanriku earthquake, it was rebuilt, then heavily damaged by the 2011 Tohoku earthquake tsunami and again rebuilt. No doubt some examples will turn up, but looking at areas affected by the Japanese disasters that I know about, I'm not finding anything obvious. Mikenorton (talk) 22:46, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Here where I am in Hawaii there are many small settlements that were destroyed and never rebuilt. It might have something to do with cultural traditions or just the difficulty of rebuilding a town on a fresh lava flow, I don't know. Viriditas (talk) 22:54, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Also the inadvisability of doing so. In places like Hawaii and Iceland, eruptions sometimes recur in the same place after an interval of years, decades or a few centuries. The currently evacuated town of Grindavik is built on a lava field reckoned to be 2,350 years old, and look how that's working out. {The poster formerly known as 878.81.230.195} 51.198.104.88 (talk) 23:10, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
 * To examine the thinking behind this, Dunwich was an influential port, capital city and seat of a bishopric.  The invading Danes (who were pagan) put paid to the last function.   They took out the bishop of Elmham as well.   Coastal erosion caused the river estuary to move and buildings to fall into the sea but Dunwich regained some religious function (Greyfriars Franciscan priory is still extant).   However, when order was restored the dioceses of Dunwich and Elmham were united, with the seat at Elmham. 2A02:C7B:228:3400:6512:B1E5:DFB6:B10B (talk) 13:20, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Anotsu was a settlement that was destroyed by the 1498 Meiō earthquake. 115.188.140.167 (talk) 02:01, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Hodie mihi, cras tibi
What is the oldest known occurrence of the epitaph (or ‘cynical jeer’ in RLS’s words) “Hodie mihi, cras tibi”? Did it perhaps already exist in antiquity (not necessarily as a Latin epitaph, but the same idea expressed in connection with death)? I guess I'm interested in both (first known Latin epitaph of this kind, and earlier similar adages). ---Sluzzelin talk  22:42, 7 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The oldest use in a book that I can find is in a letter by Francesco Filelfo (1398–1481). Contrasting "hodie this, cras that" was of course also used by ancient Latin writers, and there have to be attestations of the sentiment "that which befalls me now may also become your fate" being expressed, but I am not aware of these coming together. The poem from which we have the aphorism Carpe diem reflects on the brevity of life, but not on a contrast between those who died and those who still live. --Lambiam 20:28, 8 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Thank you, Lambiam, I haven't found any older exact quote (let alone epitaph)! There is, of course, a voluminous history of contemplating one's own death (see e.g. Memento Mori), but what I find so striking about this succinct phrase is the fact that a dead person is saying it very directly to me, not some philosopher or spiritual leader in general. More recent epitaphs sometimes include skull and bones, making Stevenson's 'cynical jeer' more understandable. ---Sluzzelin talk  23:05, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * has Cosimo de' Medici to Palla Strozzi in 1433. Epistolae was 1485 but i cannot tell if Lambiam's link is words by Francesco Filelfo or if he is publishing an earlier letter? fiveby(zero) 00:11, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * The letter by Filelfo is dated . This edition of his letters was published soon after his death; many more would follow. --Lambiam 09:09, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Fiveby and Lambiam! ---Sluzzelin talk  23:35, 11 January 2024 (UTC)