Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Humanities/2024 March 15

= March 15 =

Cross-country reception of Scandinavian artists in Scandinavia
Is it reasonable to assume that Scandinavian artists are more famous and more adopted also in the respective other Scandinavian countries than in most of the rest of the world? My special interest at the moment: Is Edvard Grieg and his Peer Gynt probably more famous in Denmark and Sweden than in an average other European country? --KnightMove (talk) 07:31, 15 March 2024 (UTC)


 * The site https://bachtrack.com allows searching for performances of composers / works in a frame of dates. Sample queries (Grieg, nothing else or Grieg plus Peer Gynt) indicate that performances are conducted in the major concert halls of Europe, the US, etc.  I fail to notice any bias towards performances in Scandinavian / Nordic concert halls but multiple queries for "similar" composers, Jan Sibelius et all, are required.  --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 08:51, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the Peer Gynt Suite No. 1 is uniformly famous across Europe. Many people will at least know the melodies of "In the Hall of the Mountain King" and "Morning Mood". I have no notion whether the full music, or Suite No. 2, are somewhat popular in Scandinavian countries, but they are not in most of Europe. The play is probably most popular in Norway, which holds an annual Peer Gynt Festival. --Lambiam 09:29, 15 March 2024 (UTC)


 * Another Scandinavian artist Jean Sibelius is seen as a national hero in his native Finland. his Finlandia has been suggested as the Finnish national anthem. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:31, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
 * True (I, a Brit, have visited his monument in Helsinki), but he is also very famous in the rest of Europe, with Finlandia and the Karelia Suite in particular being frequently played on UK radio and in live concerts during the last 60 years to my personal knowledge.
 * From my less-than-comprehensive knowledge of modern music, rock and pop groups from any particular Scandinavian country are often broadly well known in Scandinavia as a whole but more obscure outside it, although some occasionally break out into worldwide fame, such as ABBA and a-ha: my favourite band Nightwish, for example, has been described as one of the biggest selling group in Scandinavia (not just their native Finland), but remain fairly niche in the rest of the world. This however is anecdotal, I don't know where one would find reliable data. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.186.221 (talk) 11:37, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I think that metal is fairly niche in most of the world, no matter where the band comes from. But Nightwish is pretty well-known in the Netherlands, even among the general public. That may have something to do with their current lead vocalist. Within the metal community, the Scandinavian bands are well known. PiusImpavidus (talk) 18:49, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but Metal itself is reportedly less niche in Scandinavia than elsewhere. Further, Nightwish's prominence in the Netherlands outside the metal community only came about after Floor, in Nightwish from 2012, appeared in the 2019 season of the Dutch TV show Beste Zangers performing solo (well, with the show's house band) or dueting. Her less-metal solo shows (backed by the same Marcel Fisser Band) have also become very popular, so in a sense Nightwish is riding her Dutch coat-tails in the Netherlands. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 51.198.186.221 (talk) 23:55, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Grieg and Sibelius are both performed around the world, transcending national origin, but other major Scandinavian composers such as Niels Wilhelm Gade, Carl Nielsen and Hilding Rosenberg probably fit the OP's hypothesis better. I don't think it's a phenomenon unique to Scandinavia, however. Xuxl (talk) 13:02, 15 March 2024 (UTC)


 * The fame of classical composers (using the broadest sense), or at least knowledge of their existence and something of one of their works (among the general populace in English-speaking countries) is going to be skewed by their use in cartoons and other incidental uses. Grieg's Morning Mood gets used all the time in such stuff. Our article really only touches on the more noteworthy uses. In itself, that kind of thing maybe doesn't qualify as fame as you mean it, but if we're talking about the general public, we're talking about the difference between having some slight recognition and nothing whatsoever. Similarly, a high percentage of people will recognize Night on Bald Mountain from its use in Fantasia, but virtually all of those people will have no other knowledge about Modest Mussorgsky's existence. So, depending on your definition of "fame", you're likely going to need to account for that effect. Matt Deres (talk) 14:09, 15 March 2024 (UTC)


 * *	I disagree. The general public is totally irrelevant to the scheduling of Grieg, Sibelius or any old masters of any art form.  The general public is relevant to Hollywood, Amazon, Walmart and political elections where morons (statisticlaly 50%) participate and provide >>50% of the revenue. --Cookatoo.ergo.ZooM (talk) 16:26, 15 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "Morning Mood" has become irrevocably associated with free-wheeling skylarks flying through majestic fjords with mist rising and lush greenery on all sides, yada yada. Yet Grieg wrote it to depict sunrise in a desert ! -- Jack of Oz   [pleasantries]  21:32, 15 March 2024 (UTC)


 * "The Danish National Symphony Orchestra is specialized in Scandinavian repertoire". On Classic FM (UK), when Sibelius is played it's very often a recording by the DNSO.
 * Also: "In performance terms, the Bergen Philharmonic under Neeme Järvi are hard to beat, particularly in Scandinavian repertoire". Alansplodge (talk) 21:36, 16 March 2024 (UTC)