Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 August 16

= August 16 =

Polish Translations
How does one say the following phrases in Polish?:

1. "May I go to the bathroom miss?" 2. "You are the frosting on my cake" 3. Where is the subway station?"

Thanks a lot. Acceptable 02:28, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Czy mogę wyjść do ubikacji, proszę pani? (Assuming this is a child asking a teacher for permission to go to the toilet)
 * Jesteś lukrem na moim torcie. (Pretty weird, this one. I assumed an informal tone and that the cake is a birthday cake type one.)
 * Gdzie jest stacja metra?
 * Let me know if you need pronunciations too. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 19:56, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I think the original poster meant more along the lines of 'apple of my eye', or favorite person, rather than literally the icing on a cake. 68.231.151.161 04:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but I didn't want to assume too much. Unfortunately, Acceptable didn't provide any context or purpose of these sentences, so I could only provide a literal translation. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 07:13, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. And yes, for number 2, I meant like "apple of my eye" and favourite person kind of thing. Thanks. Acceptable 15:32, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't really think of a good Polish equivalent of this idiom. Perhaps most natural, but much less poetic, would something like Jesteś dla mnie wszystkim ("You are everything to me"). &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 19:16, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Reword this sentence
I am working with a mathematical formula. It computes how much time has elapsed between a beginning date and an ending date. So, for example, if I enter the beginning date as April 2, 1925 and the ending date as November 16, 1982 ... the formula will calculate that the time between these two dates is: 57 years, 228 days. So, let's say that I am writing a User's Manual or Instructions for someone who wants to employ my mathematical formula. I might say something like this:

This mathematical formula calculates the number of full years and days that have elapsed between two specified dates.

However, the formula will also work with -- and can be used for -- dates in the future (that is, dates that have not yet occurred or have not yet elapsed). So, the formula can calculate how much time WILL elapse from, say, January 1, 2035 to November 9, 2172 (both dates in the future). Similarly, the formula can calculate how much time WILL elapse to reach, say, March 6, 2018 (a future date) from today's date (a current / present date). So, my questions:

(1) The above italicized sentence is grammatically correct when referring to past dates ("that have elapsed") ... but the above italicized sentence is not grammatically correct when referring to future dates (since they have not yet elapsed). Is my understanding correct?

(2) If so, how can I rewrite the above italicized sentence; as basically and simply as and un-wordily as possible; still employ the word "elapse"; and have the sentence generically encompass both situations and uses -- past dates that have already elapsed as well as future dates that will (i.e., have not yet) elapsed ...?

I dont' want to just simply say: This mathematical formula calculates the number of full years and days between two specified dates.

Or, is that all that I am reasonably left with? I would like to have the word "elapse" in there if possible. Please advise. Thanks in advance. (Joseph A. Spadaro 03:18, 16 August 2007 (UTC))


 * "Given a start date and an end date, this mathematical formula gives the number of that, at the end date, (will) have elapsed since the start date." --Lambiam 03:34, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Informally, I'd write something like "this formula calculates the number of years and days between the start and end date", but this is ambiguous as to the exact sense of "between". Your reader might interpret "between" in the strict or exclusive sense and argue that the only day "between" May 3 and May 5 is May 4, and therefore those two dates should produce the answer 1. Oh, and I see you said you didn't want to use a certain wording similar to this.


 * Another choice is "this formula calculates the difference between the start and end dates, in years and days." By using the word "difference", you might make your reader think of mathematical subtraction: 5 minus 3 is 2, so May 3 to May 5 is 2 days.  But not all readers would see it that way.  (Programmers, who are used to computing such things by subtraction, probably would get it right.)


 * You can avoid a specific tense while referring to "days elapsed" by wording it this way: "This formula calculates the number of years and days elapsed since the start date, as of the end date."


 * Oh, and here's a still simpler version. Dump "elapsed" and just say "This formula calculates the number of years and days from the start date to the end date." There!


 * --Anonymous, August 16, 04:45 (UTC).

Thanks for the input! Much appreciated! (Joseph A. Spadaro 23:43, 17 August 2007 (UTC))

Spanish translations
How do we translate from Spanish: Tanto tiempo! Que barbaro! (speaking to a girl while dancing) Varnos (while parting after a nice evening together) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christinochkf (talk • contribs)


 * "¡(Hace) tanto tiempo!" = "(It's been) so long!"
 * "¡Que barbaro!" = (literally: "How barbaric!") "Wow!" Or any other exlamation of amazement.
 * "Varnos" = "Varni" ( but probably it was "¡Vamos!" = "Let's go!" or "We're off.")
 * ---Sluzzelin talk  06:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Babelfish (www.babelfish.altavista.com) translates many languages for free, including Spanish! I use it all the time, though it tends to give a literal translation for things so sometimes phrases (such as that "¡Que barbaro!" literally meaning "how barbaric" but is used as an exclamation like "wow" would probably be very confusing to an English speaker)75.187.64.87 20:17, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Babelfish is pretty much useless.--Tresckow 09:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Google Translate, on the other hand, isn't. I use it frequently from German to English and am quite impressed with the results. Of course it's not perfect, but most of the time it's comprehensible and only requires a little brushing up. —Angr 14:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Additionally, don't forget that the question pronoun "Qué" needs an accent, so the correct spelling would be "¡Qué bárbaro!". --Taraborn 16:13, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

French in Haiti?
I know that kreyòl ayisyen is the most widely spoken language across the country and that more educated people are proficient in standard French. What percentage of the population of Haiti is proficient in standard French? Or how many people are proficient in standard French?--Sonjaaa 08:23, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Also do you make the liaison in the French words "en Haïti" or not? With h-words I'm never sure.--Sonjaaa 08:25, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Our article on Haiti links to Demographics of Haiti where we read "French is one of two official languages, but it is spoken by only about 10% of the people. All Haitians speak Creole, the country's other official language." 152.16.188.107 10:25, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As for the liaison, the answer is yes. - Mu 17:09, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The h is not h aspiré, so there is liaison. Wareh 17:07, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

In the following sentence, which eventuality is more likely?
Hello,

"Barring bad weather, we plan to go to the beach tomorrow."

In the opinion of the speaker are the chances for bad weather just 50:50 or one event is more likely than the other? Thanks 196.12.53.9 10:53, 16 August 2007 (UTC)Vineet Chaitanya
 * I read it as "Only bad weather will stop us going to the beach tomorrow" - X201 11:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, but that's not what the questioner is asking. He/she is asking what the statement implies about the likelihood of bad weather in the speaker's mind.  And my answer would be that it doesn't imply anything about the likelihood of bad weather one way or the other. --Richardrj talkemail 11:11, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite certain about that, Richard (but then, I'm not a native speaker). The American Heritage Dictionary defines barring as: "Apart from the occurrence of; excepting" and gives the example "Barring strong headwinds, the plane will arrive on schedule." There is no precise answer, but, as perhaps implied by X201, the perceived likelihood of bad weather looks less than 50% to me. ---Sluzzelin talk  11:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say the sentence gives no contextual clues as to the likelihood of bad weather. So 50/50 (not a statistical probability - just a tunrn of plhrase )is a reasonable figure - though it's not implicit. In other words the speaker hasn't said enough to tell us what the weather outlook is like. 87.102.66.173 12:03, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. The speaker is giving the impression that they assume that the weather will be fine, while recognising a possibility that it will not. --Dweller
 * I don't agree that it's 50/50. The possibility implies (to me at least) that bad weather is seen as less likely to the speaker. Clarityfiend 05:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't believe there's enough information to make any estimate of the likelihood. I don't even think they're assuming the weather will be fine.  If that were the assumption, they would likely not even have mentioned the possibility of bad weather at all.  To me, they're hoping the weather will be fine and they're basing their plans on that hope.  But they're realists and they recognise their plans may not eventuate.  The probability of tomorrow's weather being bad in one place (eg. the Caribbean during the hurricane season) may be very different from another place (eg. Ibiza), and since we have no information about where the beach is or what the season is, who can say how likely or unlikely tomorrow's weather will be bad?  --  JackofOz 03:58, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Does this sentence make sense? "Barring a Republican victory, a Democrat will be elected president in 2008." (It doesn't to me ... I wanted to write "barring a Republican resurgence", or "comeback", etc.) Tesseran 17:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's grammatically correct, but almost a tautology in the US's two-party system. Friday (talk) 17:50, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Phrase Origin(s): "Flood [them] with paperwork"
Any detail that can be provided on the origin of the phrases, "Flood them with paperwork" is appreciated. Zeke1480 12:17, 16 August 2007 (UTC)zeke1480
 * I assume it comes from the fact that flood can be used to describe an inundation of things other than water, e.g. an office can be flooded with paperwork, a deli can be flooded with customers, a politician can be flooded with questions, etc. Strad 20:37, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * That explains the meaning of the phrase, not its origin. --Lambiam 23:25, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * But if there's nothing special about that usage of "flood", then there's nothing special about the phrase either, and no "origin" to be identified. Which I think is the correct answer. --Anonymous, August 17, 2007, 01:23 (UTC).

Perhaps I should clarify a bit - by origiin I mean the first time or by whom the phrase can be traced to.57.67.161.196 05:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)zeke1480

translate
Can somebody please help tranlate Bladestorm:_The_Hundred_Years%27_War from the japanese-english into readable English.

For instance I imagine that

"Diane, blooming on the battlefield, a wild lily."

should read

"Diane, a young female warrior"?

The original source can be found at:

http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/bladestorm/ press "character" then the yellow button - the site is flash so unfortunately I can't just copy the japanese characters over. Thanks.87.102.74.134 20:32, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Specifically these


 * Bart, a friend searching for the greatest "legend".
 * George, Mark's elder brother, never losing dignity, unleashing arrows of mortality.
 * Mark, George's brother, "an iron wall for the sake of defending people.
 * Karen, dual swords dancing upon the battlefield.
 * Nalan, strong and descendent of the blue wolf.
 * Yoshimasa, a samurai that breathes loyalty.
 * Shakti, a "death god" that becomes a seductive dragon.

Your help appreciated.87.102.74.134 20:49, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "Diane, a young female warrior" is hardly a 'translation' of "Diane, blooming on the battlefield, a wild lily." It's more of a paraphrase, and youth is not really even alluded to in the original, so really you are asking us to just say who the characters are, I presume, disregarding the poetic intent of the original author? --Manga 22:05, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * YES.I need a plain english description based on the japanese found at http://www.gamecity.ne.jp/bladestorm/ for the article.
 * "blooming on the battlefield" seemed to be an allusion to youth?87.102.14.51 08:56, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Bereweeke
Bereweeke is used for several roads and avenues in the suburb Weeke of the city of Winchester in England. I am interested to learn of the origin of the name and it's significance in Winchester. Eldib10 22:19, 16 August 2007 (UTC)eldib10


 * Having done a little research on the two elements of this name, 'Bere' and 'weeke', I have found the following: 'Bere' meant barley in Old English, and it is sometimes mentioned as a place name element, but in most of those place names, 'bere-' has mutated to 'bar-' (e.g. Barton, Barlow).  'Bere' is also an old British (Celtic) word meaning scrubby wood or copse.  This Celtic word element is believed to be the source of the first part of the village name Bere Regis in Dorset (see this source).  As for 'weeke', this source states that the name means specialized farm, often a dairy farm.  So the name 'Bereweeke' could possibly refer to a farm that specialized in barley, a dairy farm where barley was also planted, or a dairy farm next to a scrubby wood.  Marco polo 15:04, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Bere is most likely the Old English rather than Celtic origin here, as Winchester was the capital of Wessex, the Anglo-Saxon kingdom which came to dominate England in the ninth and tenth centuries. So my vote is with barley farm. Beer, the delicious and beautiful beverage may also get it's name from the same origin. Cyta 15:46, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

HTML, XHTML, (X)HTML, X(HTML)
There are two separate, but related technologies called HTML and XHTML. Sometimes, when writing about these technologies, authors "conflate" the two by using a "parenthetical" notation.

For example, joe blow writes that "(X)HTML-based technologies are increasingly popular in China".

What is the technical name for this kind of "conflation" of terms? Is this simply an "abbreviation"? dr.ef.tymac 22:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No technical name found, sorry. To describe it, maybe "optional inclusion" (of the term delimited by parentheses)? ---Sluzzelin talk  06:27, 17 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Not sure, but many (wo)men use that method. StuRat 08:02, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You know, I'd say it's far from conflation.... Nevertheless, there's nothing preventing you from calling it parenthetical notation. --Kjoonlee 18:13, 19 August 2007 (UTC)