Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 August 20

= August 20 =

"Metamagic"
Is there any documented use of "metamagic" or "metamagical" prior to Metamagical Themas? Neon Merlin  00:50, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * His main use of the concept of meta-magic is actually in the dialogue "Little Harmonic Labyrinth" between chapters 4 and 5 of Gödel, Escher, Bach (though the actual word "meta-magic" doesn't seem to occur there). AnonMoos 11:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

I always thought it was just an anagram of "Mathematical games"! Just a made up word to suit the subject matter.....David E Ward 14:06, 20 August 2007 (UTC)Drdavideward

Weird symbols in Japanese email addresses
Today I asked some Japanese exchange students for their emails and what they wrote down had a weird symbol in it that looked like the "no smoking" sign but without the cigarette.

Here's is an example: zutto2.(weird symbol)maenokoto_(weird symbol)

How do I imput these symbols so that I can send them emails properly? --Candy-Panda 06:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * They were probably zeros. Some people write zero similarly to Ø to distinguish it from capital O. See slashed zero. —Angr 06:10, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Oh that makes sense! Thank you :) --Candy-Panda 06:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

uneyclopedic
The word "uneyclopedic" is used to describe passages in Wikipedia - what does it mean ? Motocomiot
 * Probably a misspelling of unencyclopedic - meaning information or writing style that would not be found in an Encyclopedia.87.102.2.76 13:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:UNENCYCLOPEDIC will tell you more. DuncanHill 13:14, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Unencyclopedic, as used in Wikipedia, is usually shorthand for saying that an article fails to be verifiable or notable; is original research; or falls into one of the other categories listed in What Wikipedia is not. Gandalf61 13:19, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There even is Wikipedia is an encyclopedia in which the creator has gone to the trouble of using ALL CAPS to tell us what not to do.87.102.2.76 14:32, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

"ae" versus "æ"
In Latin, should one use "ae" or "æ", or does it perhaps vary? For example, I have seen both "curriculum vitae" and "curriculum vitæ". Which is correct? Thanks! —Bromskloss 13:41, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It depends on the context. "æ" is used in some words that are derived from Greek, such as "encyclopædia". Ae at the end of "vitae" is a native Latin diphthong so it shouldn't need "æ". The other part of the context is the font you are using. If you can't write "æ" then "ae" is a perfectly acceptable substitute! SaundersW 13:51, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh, that's a diphthong? I didn't even know that. Thank you! —Bromskloss 14:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia also has an article on "æ", including some info on usage and history. ---Sluzzelin talk  14:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

SaundersW's answer isn't entirely correct. "æ" is a medieval invention; it was never used in the Roman Republic and Empire. So if you're writing Classical Latin, you shouldn't use it at all. If you're writing in Medieval Latin, it's acceptable both in words of Greek origin (where it corresponds to the diphthong αι) and in native Latin words, so both encyclopædia and ætatis suæ are OK. Where it's not okay is in words of Greek origin where the original Greek had αη, so Danae is never "Danæ", and aer "air" is never "ær". What is acceptable in those instances is aë: Danaë, aër. —Angr 18:54, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * It's really a shame you didn't use "mediævel" in your explanation. =[ H YENASTE 21:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * No it isn't. I'm writing in English, not Medieval Latin. —Angr 22:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I write in English, and I would write mediæval.DuncanHill 22:27, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * And I would write mediaeval! Cyta 08:01, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I note that the latest Oxford Dictionary for Writers and Editors prefers 'medieval' while allowing 'mediaeval', and reserving 'æ' to denote O.E. 'ash'. Bjenks (talk) 05:19, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

uk place names
hi,

can anyone direct me to, or give me, a big list of all the "place endings" meanings for uk settlements, eg, Birmingham > ham = village, Watford > ford = river crossing etc

(feel free to put stuff on my talk: User talk:Plague of Death!)

thanks, --Plague of Death 15:03, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You are probably looking for List of generic forms in British place names. Adam Bishop 15:16, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Gallumph
I'm not certain I have the right number of L's. We had a guest lecturer in my class today, and he used this word. He even spelled it, actually. I recognize it from Jabberwocky, of course, but he used a different definition of it. He was describing a tendency of his, that he said he shared with a few of us. He said that when things were going really well, he had an urge to do something to get himself in trouble. Something, anything, to cause trouble for himself, that he'd then have to use all his ingenuity to get back out of again. He used the word "gallumph" to describe this, I believe as a verb. I feel like I've heard this use of it before, but I can't remember where. Any ideas? Black Carrot 16:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * OED notes "galumph" (one l) was indeed coined by Carroll and defines it, "Orig., to march on exultingly with irregular bounding movements. Now usu., to gallop heavily; to bound or move clumsily or noisily." Several citations after its 1872 introduction (spanning 1881-1965) are provided to show its currency, but nothing particularly memorable or in the special sense you mention (though "clumsily" points in that direction).  Wareh 19:28, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

What is this called?
The Japanese "字牌" (this is mahjong terminology) translates literally as "character tiles", but actually means "honor tiles"; whereas what we call the "character tiles" in English are actually what the Japanese call "萬子" (literally: "myriad tiles", with "myriad" being used in the sense of "10,000").

This is not a case of "false friends" or "false cognates", but it is false something. What? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.134.226.118 (talk • contribs)


 * What's said is that the word x in language A corresponds to the word y in language B, while the literal meaning of x corresponds to the word z in language B. I think it's fairly common in any pair of languages, and probably has no special name. I can't think of any good example to illustrate it at the moment, though. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 01:52, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * An example might be the pair French letter and Capote anglaise ("English bridesmaid hat"), illustrating the phenomenon bidirectionally. --Lambiam 21:34, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I think a better example would be German selbstbewusst and English self-conscious. The German word is a perfect calque of the English word, but means almost the exact opposite, namely "confident". —Angr 21:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * You might call it a false calque, but I don't think I've heard that phrase before. --Reuben 21:26, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Spanish names
The article Lorenzo Lamas gives his full name as Lorenzo y de Santos Lamas (presumably copying IMDb, which I've previously caught in a somewhat similar mistake). From what I know of Spanish naming practice, this seems very unlikely to be right; and the Language Desk seems like a good place to fish for support. Lorenzo Lamas y de Santos would be a well-formed name, consisting of a given name and a compound surname, the y being equivalent to the hyphen in Spencer-Churchill. It has occurred to me that, as Lorenzo was born in an English-speaking country, his second (maternal?) surname de Santos could have been treated as a middle name, to ensure that he'd be alphabetized as Lamas rather than Santos; but this doesn't entirely explain the y. —Tamfang 17:46, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Cf. Google. Wareh 19:25, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * According to Spanish naming customs, shouldn't he be Lorenzo Lamas y Dahl anyway? Where'd this de Santos come from? —Angr 19:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I have fathomed this. His Argentine father's birth name was Fernando Alvaro Lamas y de Santos, so what we have here is evidently the Anglo-Saxon naming custom getting mixed up with the Spanish. I have updated the Lorenzo Lamas and Fernando Lamas articles. Xn4 20:38, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * English hyphenated surnames traditionally record an inheritance in the female line; e.g. the fifth duke of Marlborough changed his name from Spencer to Spencer-Churchill because he inherited the title through a daughter of the first duke, John Churchill. (The paternal surname more often comes last, though.)  Similarly I believe (though less confidently) that a Spanish y name is a claim to inherit from two lineages.  The surname in question here may have been Lamas y de Santos for many generations.  So should the fuller name be Lorenzo Lamas y de Santos Dahl?  —Tamfang 21:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)


 * When surnames were first doubled in England, it was more usual to put the paternal surname first, as with Spencer-Churchill. Somehow, this custom was later reversed, to the point that for a long time it was common for reference books to index people with double surnames under the second: e.g., "Palmer, Sir Otho Leslie Prior-". This is now old-fashioned. The Californians, of course, please themselves, but 'Lamas y de Santos Dahl' would make most sense if Lamas's mother (Dahl) had been unmarried and Lamas y de Santos were given names. Xn4 21:37, 20 August 2007 (UTC)