Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 August 21

= August 21 =

sioux alphabet
I AM WONDERING WERE I CAN FIND THE SIOUX ALPHABET AT SO MY DAUGHTER CAN PUT IT ON HER TATTOO. HER NAME IS VENETIA AND I NEED TO SEE IF I IS POSSIBLE. THANK YOU

LATER...................PEACE


 * Is there such a thing? Most New World languages are written with the latin alphabet if at all.  —Tamfang 00:51, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * There are several alphabets used to write Siouxan languages, all based on the Latin alphabet. Some use special diacritics. See . -- Mwalcoff 01:21, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Using a writing system for a tattoo that is unknown to the tattoo artist is a recipe for disaster. With high probability this will result in a tattoo that is considered illiterate by someone familiar with the writing system. --Lambiam 01:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Hmm, Cherokee syllabary? — Zerida 02:09, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The first problem is that the Cherokee language does not use the /v/ sound, so there is no appropriate symbol for the "V" in "Venetia". H YENASTE 02:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

French equivalent?
I'm writing something for a school assessment (so yes, it IS for school), and I want to know is there a French equivalent for the phrase "Boy, was I wrong?"? Is there some nifty "quintessentially French" expression that expresses roughly the same idea? Thanks. --antilivedT 09:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Nothing that nifty to offer, but I'd either say "Comme j'avais tort!" in the sense of being wrong, or "Comme je me suis trompé!" ("trompée" if the speaker is female) in the sense of being mistaken. You can also replace the "comme" with "que": "Que j'avais tort!" / "Que je me suis trompé(e)! There are a number of exclamations you could use for "Boy!", depending on how contemporary, refined, colloquial, or vulgar you wish to sound. ("Purée!" "Putain!" "Nom de Dieu!" etc.), or you can completely do without them, the "Comme..." or "Que..." already suggest exclamation.) ---Sluzzelin talk  09:41, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh wait, I just saw you phrased it as a question ("Boy, was I wrong?"). I don't quite understand this without context. ---Sluzzelin talk  09:44, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It goes like "I thought it was something something, but boy, was I wrong!" It was supposed to ! or ‽ but somehow I've typed ? instead. It doesn't have to be perfectly formal, some slang is fine, but probably not vulgarisms. I had thought of something along those lines but how would you put it in a sentence so it still retains the meaning? J'ai pensé/cru que ... and comme je me suis trompé together doesn't quite make sense... --antilivedT 10:18, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * If you want to say "I thought it was (a good year) but boy, was I wrong!" you could say "Je le croyais (une bonne année), mais que j'avais tort!", or "Je le croyais (une bonne année), mais comme j'avais tort!". The thinking may be more a state of mind (indicated by the imperfect) than arriving at a conclusion (which the perfect would indicate). SaundersW 12:39, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Font overview
I can't find an extensive overview of fonts/typefaces. What I mean is something like this, but that only shows 19 fonts and I would like a much more extensive list to quickly find what font would best serve a particular purpose. For this, it would also be handier if it showed the entire alphabet, instead of just the letters that make up the name of the font, but that is of secondary concern. DirkvdM 10:06, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Most font designers try to protect their IP by not showing all characters online. Fontscape may be of use to you. --Lambiam 13:31, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Wow, over 3000 fonts and all very neatly organised and presented in a handy manner. Only 45 free, though, alas. I can imagine it should indeed be easy to steal a font if the entire alphabet is presented, like on this site. But I suppose most people won't go through the trouble of learning how to do that if the price is just about 30 euro or so. Thanks for the link. Strange that I didn't find it through an extensive google image-search with "font overview" and "typeface overview". DirkvdM 18:41, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Cidade de Deus
In the English subtitles on my DVD of the Brazilian movie Cidade de Deus, the main character's name, Buscapé, is translated as "Rocket". Mechanical translators come up with "foguete" as the Portuguese translation for Rocket, and don't seem to recognize "Buscapé" at all. Is this colloquial or slang, or is a less literal translation going on?  j e f f j o n  12:40, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * According to our article Rocket (Buscapé) the name also means "firecracker". The word is actually a compound noun: busca = "search" + pé = "foot", together "foot-seeker", which refers to the use of this type of firecracker at ground level. --Lambiam 13:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I guess you can be pretty sure that calling firecrackers "foot-seekers" wasn't the idea of the firecracker manufacturers. Nothing's more appealing than the idea of a little package of flash powder chasing my feet.  j e f f j o n  14:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Feet-seeking missiles :) DuncanHill 14:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I see here that the Dutch for these infernal devices is voetzoeker – although the Dutch wikipedia has rotje. --Lambiam 17:49, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Duffel bags
Wikipedia says that a duffel bag is known as a holdall in the UK. My UK understanding has always been that a holdall is more or less rectangular (when full), with two straps, and carried by hand. (Google images seems to confirm this.) Whereas a duffel bag (UK usage) is cylindrical, with a single strap, worn on the back with the strap over one shoulder. (Google images for duffel bag shows both types, but perhaps that is because of a transatlantic difference.) Am I wrong?--Shantavira|feed me 17:49, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * My US experience is that both bags you describe are called duffel bags. Often a bag will have both the shoulder strap (usually detachable) and the two side handles. I also would use duffel to describe the the US Army bags that have a single strap that also functions to clip the top opening together  j e f f j o n  17:58, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * For me (originally from the US) a duffel bag is more or less cylindrical (when full), with two straps, and carried by hand. This is a canonical duffel bag (which I always thought was spelled duffle bag) for me. —Angr 18:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * 'Duffel' is a coarse woollen cloth, named after the Belgian town of Duffel, so it could perhaps be argued that a 'duffel bag' could be any bag shape. However, British dictionaries say that 'duffel bag' is a cylindrical canvas bag, originally used by sailors. It's a term I have read but never heard used in England. Xn4 18:00, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd agree with Shantaviraj, and I've often heard it used here in the UK. When I was at school, many of the children who didn't have satchels had duffel bags instead. DuncanHill 18:07, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, I used a duffel bag for school in the 60s. Because you could sling them over one shoulder, they were more cool than satchels.--Shantavira|feed me 19:14, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Yup, I used duffel bags to school in the early 70s. By then they tended to be made of plastic-backed material which I remember was not terribly hard-wearing! -- Arwel (talk) 19:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I would never use the word holdall, but would happily use duffel bag. I've lived in England all my life. Capuchin 08:09, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Me too on that last point. I've always known them as duffel bags, never a holdall and I've lived in UK all my life. - X201 08:33, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * The squarish bags with 2 handles can be called holdalls, never duffel bags. The cylindrical ones with the sailors and schoolboys are duffel bags. DuncanHill 09:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Agreed. In the UK a duffel bag is a cylindrical bag, open at one end, usually closed by a drawstring and carried over the shoulder. Most often used these days for carrying swimming kit or gym kit. Definitely not the same as a holdall. As the UK contributors here seem to be unanimous that a duffel bag is not the same as a holdall, maybe someone should change the article ? Gandalf61 13:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * A web search shows that the term 'duffel bag' 'kit bag' and 'holdall' have lost any specific meaning..
 * The british army kit bag is a type of duffel bag yes - ?
 * I've tried to change the article duffel bag .. Why not go and look at my embarrisng spelling and gramatical errors...87.102.42.81 17:28, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * (Almost losing count of the colons here) Looks good. Now we need to fix holdall.--Shantavira|feed me 18:17, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Holdall article started - now do those cylindrical bags with a strap and handles were the zip runs along the cylinder have a name - or are they holdalls too?87.102.42.81 20:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I call mine a duffel bag. And I don't call anything a holdall. (I'm Canadian.) - Eron Talk 20:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * In my part of the US (Detroit), the bag described by the original poster is called a gym bag. StuRat 05:43, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Burmese writing implement?
What is the name of the stylus used to write Burmese script on palm leaves? -- Dominus 18:29, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's not related to the question, but I found something odd in the article: "The script, originally adapted from the Mon script, has undergone considerable modifications to suit the phonology of Burmese, and to fit its word order of Subject Object Verb." How can the shape of a script has anything to do with word order? I can't figure it out.--K.C. Tang 02:30, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The shapes of Arabic script characters are different depending on what part of the word the character appears. I don't know if that's what the Burmese indicates, just throwing that out.  Corvus cornix 18:04, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Lovci Myslenek
The Czech name for the movie "Mindhunters" is "Lovci Myšlenek." What is the literal translation of this phrase? And how is it pronounced?


 * The literal meaning is "hunters of (the) mind", or "mindhunters". It is pronounced more or less like "lovtsy meeshlenneck". --Lambiam 21:23, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, the literal translation would be "hunters of ideas" or "hunters of thoughts." The correct Czech name should be "Lovci myšlenek" as there is no need to capitalize the M. —Daniel Šebesta {chat | contribs} 21:36, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Not even in a movie or book title? --  JackofOz 04:50, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * No, of course not. Words in titles (except the initial word) are not capitalized in most languages I know. —Daniel Šebesta {chat | contribs} 09:59, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It's worth noting that the practice of capitalizing all the (important) words of a title is a style choice, and not dictated by grammar. Many stylebooks (I think APA is one example), dictate that only the first word and any proper nouns in the title be capitalized. Donald Hosek 18:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course, it's no grammar as it relates to spelling. —Daniel Šebesta {chat | contribs} 19:31, 22 August 2007 (UTC)