Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 February 3

= February 3 =

Spanish translation needed
Could someone provide a translation for "I am from the class of 5.4" from English to Spanish?

Much appreciated, Harwoof 15:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "Soy del clase de cinco punto quattro"(?). Note that my Spanish knowledge is very basic, and I don't understand what "class of 5.4" is supposed to mean. 惑乱 分からん 15:32, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "Soy del clase de cinco punto quatro" is right, but depending on what "class of 5.4" means, the first word may need to be "estoy" rather than "Soy". Spanish has two verbs for "to be". "Soy" would be used to indicate something more permanent like nationality, and "estoy" would be used to describe something that can change easily, like mood or location. GhostPirate 17:11, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's probably more of a soy than an estoy. Thanks for all the help. I'm referring to a class of students, so I mean what would be an appropriate twisting of the statement above into a question? i.e. What class are you from? Harwoof 03:52, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * "Clase" is feminine. So it would be "Soy de la clase ..."
 * quattro, quatro → cuatro.
 * According to this source, the translation should be "soy de la promoción del 5.4"
 * Not sure about the last question (my Spanish is quite basic too), maybe "¿De qué promoción eres?"
 * --NorwegianBluetalk 10:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think "promoción" would refer to the time they graduated... 惑乱 分からん 12:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

"Ser" vs. "Estar" is not just permanence vs. impermanence; "ser" is always used to describe origen. Eran of Arcadia 18:04, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I see this has broken into a case of lots of blind people leading one blind person. And I'm probably of little use either. Go with "Estoy en la clase cinco punto quatro." and be done with it. No one who speaks Spanish will be confused by this. Promontoriumispromontorium (talk) 08:06, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Does consciousness take a plural inflection?
"The consciousness of the two men" or "the consciousnesses of the two men"? Hm. Marskell 17:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * It rather depends what you are trying to say. Can you give us the complete sentence or more context? If you are talking about some sort of shared consciousness, it would be singular. Otherwise I suppose plural, but consciousness is normally spoken of as a quality of life itself rather than a personal object, e.g. we all possess consciousness, we all regained consciousness...--Shantavira 18:10, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, it can definitely be plural, much as personality can be plural. The sentence was: "he appears to have absorbed the consciousness(es) of the other two crew members." The word definitely denotes a plural here. I'm just wondering if it should take an inflection. Marskell 18:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, in that case I suppose one would have to say "the consciousnesses of the other two crew members" in the same way as one might write "the minds of the other two crew members." The word "consciousnesses" is rather ungainly though.--Shantavira 20:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I searched a bit, and sometimes the plural is used in English texts related to Asian philosophies, talking about different consciousnesses (e.g. "The nine consciousnesses") in a qualitative sense, as mentioned by Shantavira.
 * Yes, it should probably take the -es despite the awkwardness; thx for looking. Dictionaries don't show it to be right or wrong. Marskell 06:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Pie-eyed
Where does this expression derive from?


 * Early 20th C. U.S. slang. Seems to mean someone's eyes are bulging like little pies. Not the most evocative of words probably only caught on because of its reduplicative sound. meltBanana  20:57, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't know where it came from, but in Australia it means pissed, drunk, etc. JackofOz 02:20, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Pied also means blotchy or oddly or irregularly coloured which might be a better origin.hotclaws**== 08:16, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks Jack of Oz - much appreciated.

Mark of Wiltshire

Opposite of art?
Not sure if this is the right section to ask this, but...what is the opposite of art? (not the opposite, exactly, but the non-"art" counterpart of works created)...for example, one might divide works into artistic (done primarily for aesthetic and/or spiritual reasons, though they may have some practical function), or _______ (done for practical reasons, though they may have some aesthetic and/or spiritual function). Thanks in advance...bcatt 19:20, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Craft? Not that it is the "opposite" of art, but I think it fits your description. 惑乱 分からん 19:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I find that craft encompasses both, I would use the word "practical", but that implies that if something is artistic, then it isn't practical (which is faulty logic). To give a clearer example of what I am looking for, I am looking to divide works into two main categories, art and ____; in the case of writings, poetry and prose poetry would fall under the art category, while essays, journals, etc would fall under the other; in the case of photography, photos taken with the primary intent of decoration would fall under art, whereas photos taken for an advertisement or somesuch would fall under the other, etc...a woodworker/carpenter may build a dresser, or create a mostly decorative peice...etc, etc, etc...I guess I am basically looking to avoid using the word "practical". bcatt 19:45, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "Utilitarian" might be an appropriate word. Marco polo 20:29, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Hey I was going to say that. Anyway I think that the problem is that it is a false dichotomy. A lot of artists and poets work for practical reasons: money, to change attitudes, whilst utilitarian works often have pretensions to art or later regarded as art.  meltBanana  20:43, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I was going to say 'utility', but 'technical' or 'technician' is another option. In music it's often said that there are creators and technicians. It's (as noted above) in many ways a false dichotomy, but I think it has some merit as a context. Anchoress 20:47, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Another (false) dichtotomy often used in the musical context is artistic vs commercial. ---Sluzzelin 22:19, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

I would say that music is artistic audio, while voice commercials and the like are "utilitarian"...but could a philosophy essay be termed "utilitarian"? Does that sound right? Of course, I agree that utilitarian works may be artistic, and artistic works may be utilitarian, and so, yes, it is a false dichotomy, in that it highlights only which trait is stronger, not which is absent, though it may seem to imply an absence...actually, I think "technical" works very nicely. Thanks for all your help :D. bcatt 22:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I like "utilitarian", and also "functional". Any particular word may not work for all purposes.  --Anonymous, February 4, 2007, 04:55 (UTC).


 * First thing that popped into my mind is science. Bachelor's of Art, and Bachelor's of Science. But who said science can't have art? --Wirbelwind ヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 00:11, 5 February 2007 (UTC)