Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 February 7

= February 7 =

Swedish speaking ppl -- come here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2qTdFX6thg

What does the host say? Why would Swedish television show a Fox News report on their country? To showcase what a joke American journalism is?

66.91.225.188 00:10, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * She says something like "the clip has led to strong emotions and debate here in Sweden". Fox News is a relatively major news channel in USA, and the clip is seen as largely biased and incorrect, I'd say... 惑乱 分からん 13:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Fox is controversial even here in the United States, where many see it as biased and unreliable. Marco polo 14:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I heard about it... 惑乱 分からん 15:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * For a more "fair and balanced" (ha ha) look at immigrants in Malmö see http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5348622.stm. —Angr 21:22, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

help with past tense of 'tread'
Hi, this is for a pantomime programme. It's a brief sentence about one of the actors. Please could you help to find the correct past tense version of the following sentence? (I know there's something not quite right at the moment)

"An original Rising Star Rachel has tread the boards of 23 shows and also turned her hand to direction and choreography."

thanks, Spiggy

11:58, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically, you want the past participle, not the past tense: Rachel has trodden the boards of 23 shows. Or you could use less flowery language and say simply Rachel has appeared in 23 shows. —Angr 12:03, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

thanks spiggy13:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * According to traditional grammar, it's just as correct as "Has took". AnonMoos 13:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC) [This was in response to a question: “thanks. after a little lunch, my feeble brain has come up with "Rachel has trod the boards for 23 shows". would this work?” by spiggy, later deleted by spiggy]


 * Well, I don't think you'd find William Pitt, 1st Earl of Chatham saying "has took," but he feels it perfectly natural in a letter to write, "Those who have trod the paths of the world before them." OED and AHD give the past ppl. as "trodden or trod."  Wareh 17:36, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "Has trodden"? I would have used "Has trod", as Wareh said above.  Corvus cornix 21:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * "Has trod" might sound more natural, but it's technically as wrong as saying "He has ate 3 apples" (instead of "He has eaten 3 apples"). JackofOz 03:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope! As Wareh pointed out, y'all seem to be under the misconception that "trod" cannot be the past participle of "tread", which it can. Once we've established that both "trod" and "trodden" are valid, we can argue over which is better, and to my ear "has trod" sounds better. Nevertheless, this tempest shows that some people feel strongly about this, so my recommendation, after Angr, would be:


 * "An original rising star, Rachel has appeared in 23 shows, and has also turned her hand to direction and choreography." Tesseran 05:37, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

just wanted to say thanks for the help with this. In the end I went for "has trod". SPIGGY16:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Irish/Gaelic - English translation help
I had an editor leave me a message after I nominated a couple of his articles for deletion. I'm pretty sure I know the meaning of "pog mo thoin", but I was hoping for some help translating "Ta suil agam gur faighenn to piain i do hoin as fearr mor grana". I have no doubt it is an insult of some sort, but I like knowing exactly what people are saying when they insult me. Any help would be appreciated. --Onorem 16:35, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It's sort of broken Irish. I think it's trying to say "I hope the pain in your ass gets really, really ugly", but there are grammatical mistakes in it, some of which make it difficult to understand. Faighenn (which should be spelled faigheann) means "gets", but in the sense of "receive, obtain, come to have", not in the sense of "become". "as fearr mor grana" is confusing; as means "out of" (though it could be a misspelling for is, which would mean either "is" or "and" depending on context), fearr means "better", mór means "big", and gránna means "ugly". So I guess he's saying he hopes the pain in your ass receives out of better big ugly. Whatever that's supposed to mean. —Angr 21:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Heh. I think it made more sense before I knew what he was trying to say.  Thanks for the help. --Onorem 21:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Wench
I was wondeing in anyone could help decern if the word "wench" was ever used as a term of endearment and if so any documentation,information, history, or article where the word wench was used would be greatly appreciated. I have a very good debate going with a fellow group of friends about it's use. We actually started a debate on the word "cunt" and used this site to further our knowledge and history. I thought it would be appropriate to ask for your input on this word as well. Thank you for taking the time to read this and help me out!Quarterpastcrash 17:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)Corey


 * When "wench" was first used in the English language (earliest OED citation = ca. 1290), it was not pejorative in meaning, but just meant "girl" ("William and his worthy wench," 1350; surviving later in dialect, e.g. "she was ever the most spirity wench in the world," 1895). The OED does indeed recognize a use of "wench" specifically as a term of endearment, though it says the usage is now found only in dialects ("As a familiar or endearing form of address; used chiefly in addressing a daughter, wife, or sweetheart. Now only dial. or arch.").  OED gives citations in this sense spanning the range 1581-1885.  Pejorative "wanton woman" first in 1362 (Piers Plowman).  Also note an unsavory past usage in U.S. to refer to "A colored woman of any age."  Wareh 17:29, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I can say that 'wench' is still used as a term of endearment, though it could be considered 'cheeky' too. As for 'cunt' as a term of endearment - it's used less often.83.100.250.165 19:17, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure. I'd say contemporary affectionate usage either (1) cheekily implies "wanton," and considering that a good thing ("Get over here, you saucy little wench!"), (2) affects the language of Ye Olde Renaissance Faire (i.e., a "humorous" archaism), (3) both, (4) is copied from people who were doing #1 and/or #2.  Wareh 19:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Alphabetization of song names
I'm alphabetizing a list of songs, and I know that books titles that start with "The" are not sorted by that word, but I've never seen, say, The Different Story (World Of Lust And Crime) listed as Different Story (World Of Lust And Crime), The, so how would the song be alphabetized, as The* or D*? I've a feeling it's the latter? Thanks. Xiner (talk, email) 17:21, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the "The" is ignored in song titles when alphabetizing, so you would list it as "The Different Story (World Of Lust And Crime)", but stick it in the "D" section. GhostPirate 18:30, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok. Thank you, GhostPirate. Xiner (talk, email) 18:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Hundred Years(') War
The article Hundred Years' War is also listed as Hundred Years War.. And various sources vary as to the use of an apostrophe. I fail to see why an apostrophe is needed (or relevant?)

Can someone explain this please. Thank you.83.100.250.165 18:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The comma indicates that Years' is a plural possessive. The meaning is "war of a hundred years".  If "Hundred Years" is seen as a compound modifier, then the use of the plural is not correct.  In that case it should be "Hundred-Year War".  Marco polo 19:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I understand "Hundred-Year War" - that makes sense to me, but a little confused over the possessive - to me it suggests that the war belongs to a hundred years - nonsense. I'm used to (of course) "the sailors' cat", or the "the quakers' meeting place" but this use seems a little odd - are you sure - could anyone give a similar (non-trivial) example.. Thanks83.100.250.165 19:13, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure. "It's a long day's hike just to the base camp."  "He hasn't done a day's work in all his life."  A hike (or period of work) of a certain duration, just like the war of duration = 100 years.  Wareh 19:31, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Great thanks - (looks like I've been missing those apostrophes out)83.100.250.165 19:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * By the way, there is nothing "possessive" about these uses of the genitive case. See this section of the "genitive case" article for more examples.  Wareh 00:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Nothing except the name. "Possessive case" is another name for the genitive case (as it says at the top of that article) and is the one usually used in connection with English. --Anonymous, February 8, 2007, 01:00 (UTC).
 * You're both sure it's a case? Most of the things that I've read have said that it's a genitive or possessive clitic, not a case. (They always pull out the example of "the king of Sparta's wife".) --Lazar Taxon 03:41, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * An apostrophe in this case is unnecessary and confusing. There is no sense in which the war belongs to the hundred years. It was a war that lasted a hundred years. "Hundred Years War" is the style recommended by the Oxford Manual of Style (where it specifically states "no apos."--Shantavira 08:58, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Well thanks for all your input - looks like this one could run and run. Please keep discussing if you wish.87.102.2.204 09:53, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

latin to english translation
latin to english translation - help

otis apis potanda bigone

signed John Gillon


 * It looks suspicious to me, like English joke Latin or something... 惑乱 分からん 23:14, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * O, tis a pis(s)pot and a big one. (?) ---Sluzzelin 00:11, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * You've been had. See Dog Latin. --Shantavira 09:01, 8 February 2007 (UTC)