Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 January 2

= January 2 =

Grammar correct?
is the grammar of the following sentence correct? "Antarctica melting will suddenly raise the sea levels by 20 feet.". thanks. Jamesino 02:20, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * See Gerund, which is not perfect (because it omits cases where the genitive is awkward or impossible&mdash;for more perspective google "fused participle"), but which correctly states that "Antarctica's melting" is preferred in formal written English. (We should take "melting" as a gerund and not as a participle, because it is the melting that will raise sea levels, not Antarctica.)  Of course, Antarctica per se would only melt at temperatures high enough to liquefy land; but some of the ice down there melting (see, I failed to use the genitive; I would have had to rephrase "the melting of some of the ice down there") could screw us.  Climate_of_Antarctica has the sentence you'd actually want to say: "Melting of continental Antarctic ice could contribute to global sea level rise."  (Or should that be sea levels' rise?)  Wareh 03:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This is not about grammar. The meaning of "suddenly" in the sentence is unclear; there is no sense of the timescale used as the norm. Some people might get the idea of a tsunami, a wall of sea water rushing in. To geologists, the Himalayas "suddenly" rose up when India ran into Asia. --Lambiam Talk  03:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I would say "Antarctic melting" would be more grammatical and more logical. Antarctica can't melt, it's a continent. User:Zoe|(talk) 16:40, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

pronounciation of a word
can any one tell me the correct pronounciation spinach.


 * The pronunciation in British or American English is, or in phonetic respelling, "SPINN-aach". --Lazar Taxon 04:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * IPA chart for English has some hints. --Kjoonlee 04:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

usage of dissipate
how can i use 'dissipate' in a sentence.thanks


 * How about "The energy generated by the reaction was dissipated in heat", or "He was a very dissipated and debauched young man". Take your pick! AnonMoos 05:15, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You can also use it as an intransitive verb, not taking an object: "If the fan is on, the heat will dissipate quickly." Used transitively in the active voice: "It hurt me to see him dissipate his talents on such a hopeless quest." --Lambiam Talk  10:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * "The place is not harmless: people go there to dissipate, and do dissipate." (Sala, Twice round the clock, or the hours of the day and night in London, 1859.) Wareh 17:36, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

William Tyndale English translation
William Tyndale came out with an English translation of the New Testament off the Vulgate Latin about 1525. How long would it have taken Tyndale to translate only the New Testament? Since approximately 80% of Tyndale's English translation of the New Testament was used for the King James Version of 1611, does anyone know a more accurate approximation? --Doug 13:53, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Exact dates are not known. Tyndale went to London in 1523, but was refused permission to translate the NT by the Bishop. However, he spent some time there "at his book" before moving to Hamburg in 1524. His NT was partially printed in Cologne in 1525, but publication was stopped by anti-Lutherans. A full edition came out in Worms in 1526. He was translating from Greek. (Info from ODNB) See also this page. --HJMG 14:26, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the great answers. I understand that Tyndale knew Vulgate Latin quite well. I have done some additional research on this point of Tyndale translating out of Greek. Many sites(and many history books as well) seem to indicate that William Tyndale translated the New Testament out of the Vulgate Latin. Would you agree with this? I knew Tyndale worked with the Vulgate Latin much. Did Tyndale know Greek also (a little or well)? I know that Tyndale worked with Erasmus. Erasmus came out with a Greek version of the New Testament about 1522. If I am not mistaken, didn't this have a Greek page next to the Latin page (for comparison for the reader). Do you have further evidence that Tyndale actually translated off Greek? I have a tendency to believe he translated off the Vulgate Latin, since he knew this so well. Didn't William Tyndale work much with the Vulgate Latin as well as with Erasmus? --Doug 15:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Tyndale knew several languages well. David Daniell seems very sure he based his translation on the Greek, and so does the Tyndale Society. In the ODNB entry on Tyndale Daniell says "For the first time, the whole New Testament, faithfully translated from the Greek, could be read by anyone. ..." I read the bible-researcher.com page to mean he based his translation on a Greek text, but referred to Latin and German versions too. See also --HJMG 16:51, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, that helps a lot. Also in the Tyndale Society site it gave me more clues on about what percentage of his work went into the KJV of 1611. It seems to indicate something over perhaps 90% with their words: "Tyndale's English translation of the New Testament was taken almost word for word into the much praised Authorised Version (King James Bible) of 1611." --Doug 17:07, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Root word origination of "daytime"
Was this word ever spelled "day-time". Is there any history of this word, where it came from, first usage, etc? --Doug 16:12, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * According to dictionary.com, it originated around 1525-1535 as a combination of day+time. User:Zoe|(talk) 17:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * That date seems to come from Coverdale's great translation of the psalms, Ps. 21/22, "I crie in the daye tyme." The OED goes on to cite Francis Bacon's Essays (1626, "day time"), and then cites the hyphenated form "day-time" (Joseph Priestly, 1782). Wareh 17:41, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Great followup, Wareh, thanks for the additional information. User:Zoe|(talk) 16:41, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Shampooing
The English word "shampoo" is "shampooing" in French. Why this odd form? What's the history? --jpgordon&#8711;&#8710;&#8711;&#8710; 17:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Pseudo-anglicism, probably... I think the word "shampoo" itself was from some "oriental language". 惑乱 分からん 18:31, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * According to this Online Etymological Dictionary it was first used only as a verb, to shampoo, meaning "to massage", from Hindi champo, imperative of champna "to press, knead the muscles," perhaps from Skt. capayati "pounds, kneads." Meaning "wash the hair" first recorded 1860; the noun meaning "soap for shampooing" first recorded 1866 . So possibly the word shampooing entered French between 1860 and 1866; when it already meant hair washing, but before simple shampoo was used as a noun. --Lambiam Talk  20:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * This pattern is not that uncommon with French borrowings from English. Compare le parking, le camping.  It seems that, to the French coiners from English, the -ing suffix feels like what a verb should have attached to it in order to become a noun.  (Despite le pouvoir etc., French does not really parallel the English phenomenon of identical spellings for verbs and nouns, as in "shampoo," "camp," "park."  So the pattern I've described is to avoid something that feels un-French.) Wareh 22:17, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In English we normally say "camping" too when that's what we mean. To spend your holiday/vacation in a camp is different from spending it on a camping. I think "parking" is short for "parking garage" or "parking area", and is also seen in that meaning on signs in English, whereas "park" would usually not be clear. --Lambiam Talk  23:05, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I see your point. I did have in mind the French use of parking to mean "parking lot (place you park)" (not parking) and camping to mean "campsite (place you camp)" (though you do also say faire du camping, making this is a less clear example).  I consider these roughly parallel to the use of shampooing to mean "stuff you shampoo with."  My suggestion is that the French coiner hears "shampoo," "camp," and "park" as verbs (therefore refusing to hear them as nouns), and when the need comes up for "shampoo-thing" (not the verbal noun "shampooing"), "camp-thing," or "park-thing," that's when she reaches for the -ing.  Wareh 02:00, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "To spend your holiday/vacation in a camp is different from spending it on a camping." What is 'a camping'? :-/ Skittle 16:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * In almost all of Europe (not just France) it is short for camping site or camping ground. It differs from camp in two ways: it always refers to recreational use, and it usually excludes things like staying in cabins and bungalows. I realize it may be the case that English speakers travelling through Europe pick this usage up from their surroundings, because I think it is uncommon in the US. --Lambiam Talk  01:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah! So you're saying that some English users use the French-style usage 'camping' = 'camp site' (and yes, I'm overusing 'use'). I completely missed that. When I've heard 'parking' used as a noun in English, it generally hasn't really been short for 'parking garage' or 'parking area', but more vaguely 'somewhere you can park': "Is there any parking there?" Skittle 01:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The meanings of French un camping, un parking are count nouns. I took Lambiam to mean that these usages are widespread in European languages other than English.  Wareh 04:35, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Same with Japanese. Anything with a '-ing' on the end seems to automatically become English. 'shoppingu' and 'paakingu' are but two simple examples, but these words are always used as nouns, unless you put 'suru' at the end, in which case they become pseudo-verbs. It is even possible to say 'Ima kara suriipingu suru yo' (I am now going to sleeping), meaning that the person speaking is about to go to bed. CCLemon-安部さん万歳！ 22:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Statusing
Hello, I'm wondering if the word "statusing" is really a word? As in "to gather status"? And if not, what are some better words? I ask because this word sets off bells on my spelling and grammar checkers.

Thanks! :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.76.32.144 (talk) 23:23, 2 January 2007 (UTC).

I've never heard of it and neither have wikidictionary or dictionary.com, so I'd say its not a word. I cant think of any thing which means "to gather status" Ken 23:52, 2 January 2007 (UTC)


 * How about the phrase "to check on"? —Bkell (talk) 00:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes if by "gather status" the original poster meant "gather status information", i.e. "gather information about the state of things". I think a more likely meaning is "to improve one's status" or "to improve one's social standing", in which case an expression like that seems the easiest way to say it.  "Basil Fawlty was always trying to improve his status." --Anonymous, January 3, 2007, 11:20 (UTC).


 * Status is not a verb, so it cannot be formed into a gerund like statusing. Perhaps you'd do better with monitoring, assessing, measuring? dpotter 14:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I could see 'statusing' become a verb in one field: computer programming. Say you're setting a range of variables; this could be called statusing I suppose. I am statusing the variables so that King Arthur has 5000 hit points and 50 armor class, sound about right Dave? Vranak


 * Now you're entering into a whole new dimension of the English language: "computer/IT/marketing/corporate management"-speak. Almost anything is possible here.  Dpotter argued that "status" is not a verb, and I would agree, but that wouldn't stop marketers or IT dudes creating such a usage.   Just as one could argue that "transition" is a noun and only a noun, but that hasn't stopped someone using it as a verb, or millions of sheep-like persons following suit.  JackofOz 21:36, 3 January 2007 (UTC)


 * It isn't just "computer/IT/marketing/coprorate management-speak". Freely shifting words between parts of speech is a well-established feature of English, and there are already squillions of entries in standard dictionaries listed as both nouns and verbs. The only difference between those and this is that this is new, and I guess some people just hate change.
 * I hate change for its own sake, and that's what I perceive to be happening here. There is still no justification for using "transition" as a verb, despite the fact that, for all the wrong reasons, it has become established in usage.   PS. I loved the "copro" reference - very apt indeed.  :)  JackofOz 04:46, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * "Statusing" is not a word in the sense that it's not yet established, but I see no reason why you couldn't coin it (assuming the intended audience would know what it meant). --Ptcamn 04:34, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

MOH German
recently while re-playing Medal of Honor: Frontline, I was listening to Germans shouting at me. One phrase which I didn't understand sounded something like hübsch Puppy, hübsch I know means Pretty, but I doubt I heard it right. Can somebody help. Ken 23:45, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The second word might have been die Puppe, meaning a doll or, colloquially, a (tough?) cookie. --Richardrj talkemail 09:07, 3 January 2007 (UTC)