Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 June 4

= June 4 =

man listening to disc
Hello, I need help analyzing the poem "man listening to disc" by billy collins. Please include as much detail as possible. Topics I would like focus on include: -Metaphorical language -Diction -Syntax -Organization -Punctuation -Shifts (change of attitude, tone, etc...) -Details -Figurative Language -Author Point of view.

I am aware of how it is somewhow symbolic of technology and/or how people can be self centered.

I would aslo appreciate the inclusion of special details about Billy Collins lifes and those of contemporary artists and interessting trends of the time period.70.187.225.179 02:15, 4 June 2007 (UTC)in need of help


 * Sorry, as it says at the top, we won't do your homework for you. Checking out Billy Collins should help you learn about his life though, and you can probably find information on general trends of the period from there.  If you have any specific questions, feel free to post them. -Elmer Clark 03:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

I Carré about the spelling
When starting a sentence, is it "le Carré" or "Le Carré"? Clarityfiend 03:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Easy. ALL sentences start with a capital letter.  --  JackofOz 03:12, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Listen...sounds like e.e. cummings' turning over in his grave. Clarityfiend 03:30, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, yeah. Look at his article.  &mdash;Tamfang 04:01, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, there goes one misconception. Clarityfiend 06:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Very clever title, by the way -Elmer Clark 03:39, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Clarityfiend 06:12, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * What about sentences that start with names like "van der" or "d'", like "van der Sar is a Manchester United goalkeeper?" Those start with lowercase letters.  x42bn6 Talk Mess  17:28, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * No, they don't. D  aniel  (‽) 18:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * They really don't. A.Z. 01:51, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Names like that start with a lowercase letter, except at the begining of a sentance.

Latin Harry Potter translation
I translated two poems (the Sorting Hat's song and the Hogwarts school song) from Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone in Latin, but I'm having a little trouble with the boldfaced bits. Is my effort generally accurate? (It's literal to the point of awkwardness, in the tradition of the style expected on the AP Latin Exam.)

discipuli, pulchrum si me non esse putatis, externa specie plus valet ingenium. nam petasus nusquam toto si quaeritis orbe me melior vobis inveniendus erit. lautitias odi: nolo tegmenta rotunda, neve cylindratos tradite mi petasos. Distribuens Petasus vobis Hogvartius adsum cui petasos alios exsuperare datur. Distribuens Petasus scrutatur pectora vestra, quodque videre nequit nil latet in capite. in caput impositus vobis ostendere possum quae sit, vaticanans [error for vaticinans], optima cuique domus. vos forsan iuvenes Gryffindor habebit alumnos; hanc semper fortes incoluere domum. gens hominum generosa illa est fortisque feroxque; illi nulla potest aequiperare domus. gentibus a iustus et fidis Huffle tenetur Puff. adversa tamen scit domus illa pati. hic homines animisque piis verique tenaces invenietis. erit vestra secunda domus. tertia restat adhuc Ravenclaw nomine dicta; est vetus et sapiens ingeniisque favet. sunt lepus hic hominum cultorum artesque Minervae; discipulos similes hic habitare decet. forsitan in Slytherin veri invenientur amici; improbus es? fallax? haec erit apta domus. ut rata vota habeant scelus omne patrandum est gentibus his; quaerunt nil nisi lucra sua. verticibus iubeo me vos imponere nec non pectoribus firmis rem tolerare velim! ‘incolumes eritis petasi tutamine,’ dicunt, ‘cum careat manibus, cogitat ille tamen.’''

---

te nostras audire preces, schola cara, iubemus atque docere aliquid discipulos cupidos. sive sumus pueri teneri genibus scabiosis sive coma veteres deficiente sumus, doctrinae studiis animos implere necesse est in quis nunc adsunt pulvis et aura modo muscaeque exanimes. igitur discenda doce nos quodque animo cecidit tu, schola cara, refer! quanta potes fac tu, nam cetera nos famiemus, tabescant animi dum studio nimio.'' Students, if you don’t think I’m beautiful, cleverness is worth more than external appearance. For if you seek in the whole world, a hat better than me will be found by you nowhere. I hate magnificences: I do not want round coverings, Nor hand over to me cylindrical hats. I, the Sorting Hat, am here for you at Hogwarts, I, to whom it is given to surpass other hats. The Sorting Hat examines your hearts, And nothing hides in your head that it cannot see. When I am placed on your head, I, prophesying, can show you all Which house is the best for everyone. Perhaps Gryffindor will have you young students; The brave have always inhabited this house. That nation of people is generous and brave and fierce; No house can compare to it. Hufflepuff is held by the just and faithful people. However, that house knows how to suffer adversities. Here, you will find people both of righteous spirits and tenacious of that which is true. It will be your second home. The third still remains said, named Ravenclaw; she is old and wise and favors the ingenious. There are here a hare of cultured people and skills of Minerva; It suits similar students to live here. Perhaps your true friends will be found in Slytherin; are you crooked? deceitful? This house will be fitting. Every wicked deed must be accomplished by these people So that they may hold their vows valid; they seek nothing except their own gains. By means of my points, I order you to put me on, neither do I not wish [for you] to tolerate the thing with firm hearts. “You will be unharmed by the protection of the hat,” they say; “Although it lacks hands, that one, however, thinks.”

---

We order you, dear school, to hear our prayers as well as to teach the desirous students something. Whether we are tender boys with scabby knees or we are old, deficient in hair, It is necessary to fill our minds with studies of your teaching, [our spirits] in which right now are present only dust and air and lifeless flies. Therefore, teach us those things that are to be learned and, you, dear school, bring back what fell out of our minds! You do as much [= many] as you can, for we will do the rest, [so that] our minds wither away during excessive study.''


 * XYZ nomine dictus together means "called XYZ" or "named XYZ"; literally "called by the name XYZ". The lepus has stumped me too. A copying error? I can't think of another word though to replace "lepus" in "There/They are a/the lepus here of cultivated people and (the) skills/arts of Minerva" that makes more sense. You expect some contrast in the parallel between lepus and skills:
 * lepus  of   people
 * skills  of   Minerva
 * --Lambiam Talk 20:29, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Could lepos "pleasantness, agreeableness, charm" be intended? —Angr 20:48, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think I've seen the substitution of lepus for lepos before. After all, all the other forms of those words are identical (leporis etc.). —Keenan Pepper 21:08, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks like that's it, and "lepos, leporis" (m) also can mean wit or fine sense of humor according to my Latin dictionary. The corresponding lines in the original are: Where those of wit and learning / Will always find their kind. ---77.56.100.189 21:14, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

sex

military pronunciation of cache
I notice that in military usage cache is pronounced like cachet, as in "we found a weapons cache." As far as I can tell from wiktionary, this is a mispronunciation. Does anyone have any insight as to why its pronounced this way in the US military? Thanks. -- Diletante 20:41, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've heard people say it that way as well. I believe they are just mispronouncing it. Recury 20:44, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Although cachée would mean much the same and have the two-syllable pronunciation. &mdash;Tamfang 03:58, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * See also caché. I suspect those who pronounce "cache" as "caché" are getting confused with "sachet".  JackofOz 04:05, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Sachet is also the translation of Baggins for French hobbitaddicts. -- DLL .. T 21:31, 7 June 2007 (UTC)