Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 March 20

= March 20 =

Help translating english to greek
How do you translate "Give me faith" to greek. I am looking for more of a religious translation. How would it look writen in greek and how would I pronouce it? Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.11.86.6 (talk) 01:03, 20 March 2007 (UTC).


 * If you want a very literal translation into New Testament style Greek, it would be something like didou moi pistin ΔΙΔΟΥ ΜΟΙ ΠΙΣΤΙΝ -- AnonMoos 02:49, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The present imperative didou suggests "keep giving," "start giving," or something; a less marked substitute would be the aorist dos. In Classical Greek, dos moi pistin sounds like it should mean "give me a pledge" (as at Oedipus at Colonus line 1632).  The closest you'll find in the actual words of the New Testament may be Luke 17:5, where the apostles say "Increase our faith" (Πρόσθες ἡμῖν πίστιν).  Adapted to mean "increase my faith," we get prosthes moi pistin.  May fit the bill, depending on how you look at it (literally, you are asking for an addition of faith this way).  Wareh 03:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Use of the aorist imperative could tend to suggest that the giving is a one-time event, which occurs and is then over and done with -- which might be less theologically appropriate than a present-stem imperative. AnonMoos 10:56, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * My impression (from only the most superficial acquaintance) is that liturgical Greek nonetheless favors the aorist imperative; for example, all the imperatives in the Lord's Prayer, the Kyrie, Chrysostom's liturgy (δός 5x, δίδου 0x). Nonetheless, in support of your suggestion, one can point to, e.g., Luke's version of the Lord's Prayer (give us day by day our daily bread), and certainly Classical texts that observe this nice distinction (Anthologia Graeca 10.108), so I hope you didn't think I was being disputing the basic grammatical soundness of what you said.  Wareh 13:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I don't think any of the offered translations are "wrong" as such (though they may have different connotations, etc.); I was just indicating some possible reasons for the particular proposal I originally made. AnonMoos 20:21, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I first read that as "Help translating english to geek"... J I P | Talk 18:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

What does Pommogussett mean or from where does this word originate?
What does Pommogussett mean or from where does this word originate? It is a street name in Rutland MA USA and no one seems to know where it came from.Kaitspiration 01:41, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks Algonquian. In Algonquian languages, there is "the locative affix -set, 'near' or 'in the vicinity of'".  I'm quoting The Composition of Indian Geographical Names, by J. Hammond Trumbull.  The letter-sequence pom doesn't occur in that book, but the first part of your name reminds one of the beautiful Pemigewasset wilderness.  Trumbull says Pemi- "denotes deviation from a straight line; 'sloping,' 'aslant,' 'twisted," but that the whole word Pemigewasset is a mystery.  Wareh 02:53, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The name probably comes from the Nipmuck people who inhabited most of central Massachusetts before the English came. It is not known for sure whether their language was closer to that of the Pequot or the Massachusett, but it was probably related to both.  According to Native American Place Names of Massachusetts by R.A. Douglas Lithgow, the name "Pomagusset" refers to a brook in the town of Rutland.  According to the same source, "Pigsgusset" or "Pegusset" means something like "where the narrows broaden out" in a brook or river in Massachusett.  It's just a conjecture, but the name may have something to do with the narrowness (or broadness) of the brook. If you want to investigate more, you might see if your local public library has or can get a copy, through interlibrary loan, of Wood's Vocabulary of Massachusett, written by William Wood in the 1600s but republished in 2002. Marco polo 22:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Samnorsk
Will Samnorsk, combination of Bokmal and Nynorsk, ever come about? Heegoop, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Uh, probably not. Many of the ideas proposed are apparently acceptable alternatives in writing, though. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (&lt; \) (2 /) /)/ * 11:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Formal Semantics of Modal Expressions
Hi, I want to write a paper on modality in my Formal Semantics class and have been assigned an article by Angelika Kratzer: "The Notional Category of Modality" (see reference below). In particular, she introduces three things necessary to interpret modal expressions: a modal relation (necessity, probability), a modal base (information needed to evaluate the modal) and an ordering source (which will impose an ordering on the modal base).

Now, I find the article pretty hard-going. The only references on the web that I found are slide shows basically recounting the formal definitions and other papers, even more opaque to me. Do you know any resource that explains these concepts in a more accessible way? In particular I'm looking for examples that specify what the modal relation/base and the ordering source are in these cases (the article has some, but they're rather incomplete and I don't get them).

Alternatively, if you know of any place on the net that is more appropriate to discuss this topic, please tell me. Haven't found any. Thanks!

--- The Notional Category of Modality. In H.J. Eikmeyer and H. Rieser: Words, Worlds, and Contexts. BerlinNew York (de Gruyter) 1981, 38-74. Reprinted in P. Portner & B. Partee (eds.): Formal Semantics. The Essential Readings. Oxford (Blackwell), 2002. Also reprinted in Javier Gutierrez- Rexach (ed.),Semantics: Critical Concepts. London (Routledge).

122.169.159.181 10:35, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Our article Linguistic modality is more of an outline than an article covering the topic, but it could be a helpful starting point. Perhaps when you have finished your paper you can come back and improve the article! Marco polo 15:57, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Japanese technical term
Does anyone know a decent translation for 'tsutsumi no keri' (堤の蹴り), found in a martial arts manga I have?

Much appreciated! --CCLemon-ここは寒いぜ！ 12:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I have just come to the conclusion that Tsutsumi is the name of one of the characters, as the word keeps coming up in all sorts of places. However, I shall leave the question above (albeit struck out) in case anyone has any other ideas. --CCLemon-ここは寒いぜ！ 14:48, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * 'tsutsumi's kick' as in she's probably kicking someone. Coolsnak3 19:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Cheers, Coolsnak3. I had gathered that, though (and Tsutsumi is a male character). I was thinking more along the lines of whether it was a special term, with the 'tsutsumi' as a modifier for the kick. A Google search revealed three blogs with the phrase in, all about school work, or something.CCLemon-ここは寒いぜ！ 15:56, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

Some Questions, Begging Answers
Hi, my question relates to the increasing usage of the phrase “begging the question” to mean that a certain question “begs” to be asked, as opposed to an example of circular reasoning. In light of this relatively recent, seemingly snowballing, phenomenon (I heard Jon Stewart use it in this sense last week on “The Daily Show”) I was wondering whether I may now say something along the lines of, “while informative that article begs the question of whether or not the author is simply begging the question.”? Context would seem to be enough to differentiate my uses of the phrase within the sentence, so would objections, if any, be based on aesthetics, some rule written or otherwise I’m unaware of, or what?

Now, I both recognize and appreciate that language is constantly evolving, but my initial, visceral, reaction to hearing this phrase in its new incarnation is to cringe, introspection upon which led me to these questions. So I guess I’m kind of asking whether disparate uses in cases such as this may peacefully coexist in the language or is there some reason or process whereby a new usage tends to push out and replace the old usage? So, in 5-10+ years is it likely that the “accepted” popular use will be the more modern sense, with many people blissfully unaware that it ever meant anything else, while a relative handful of holdouts occupying tall structures constructed of ivory grumble and/or sneer to themselves?

It feels to me like I can see this phrase changing before my very eyes, which is interesting, and I’m guessing that the seeming rapidity of the change is due in part to the prevalence of mass media and the internet, so I was also curious if anyone could think of any other similar examples of words or phrases changing their meaning in, say, the last seven years or so? Also, does anyone know if this is an exclusively American phenomenon or are other English speaking countries seeing this change also?

A final, rhetorical if you prefer, question: Or, am I setting a bad example by refusing to simply pick a side while my country is in the midst of prosecuting a war? ;) Thanks in advance for any insight/input. Azi-161.181.53.10 14:35, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * While the anti-prescriptivist in me struggles not to be annoyed by the usage you describe, the pragmatist in me is very much annoyed by it. For one thing, begging the question is an important concept that needs a unique name. For another, there's already a perfectly good phrase to use instead of "This begs the question whether...", namely "This raises the question wheter...". Still, I suppose it's tilting at windmills to try to get people to stop saying it now. —Angr 14:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * We have an article Begging the question that also discusses the perverted meaning. I think you are right that young people who grew up hearing a language change unacceptable to many older speakers play a crucial role in effecting lasting language change. --Lambiam Talk  17:27, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The bastardization of language! These are the same people who, rather than using "toes the line" in its proper context, say "tows the line", meaning "pulls his weight". − Twas Now ( talk • contribs • e-mail ) 05:19, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the responses...interesting one Twas NowI have not run across that particular misuse yet, though i see the simple mis-spelling often. I'd love it if anyone can think of any other examples and/or enlighten me on any other aspects of my admittedly slightly long and rambling orginal post.161.181.53.10 19:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Who said this?
Here is a destiny that makes us brothers; none goes his way alone. All that we send into the lives of others, comes back into our own. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.127.149.142 (talk) 21:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC).
 * Google only has two results when I searched for the first phrase.   The first link, some guy's MySpace page, claims that it's from an old episode of Guiding Light.  Dismas |(talk) 23:04, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

It was Edwin Markham, an American poet. Clio the Muse 23:12, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Twelfth Night
In Shakespeare's Twelfth Night, where Antonio and Sebastian land at Illyria because their ship sunk, Antonio and Sebastian lodged in The Elephant. When Shakespeare was playing this play, the Elephant and Castle happened to be near The Globe Theatre. Is this an early example of product placement?208.72.124.22 22:58, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Probably not, as the inn by that name only dates to the 1760s. Clio the Muse 23:44, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Not a reference to the Elephant and Castle but an inn of Bankside in Elephant Alley. Previously called Red Hart renamed to Oliphant in 1598. I expect there are much earlier examples of product placement, in Greek drama for instance, but they are less identifiable. And here is a page that probably should be linked to more History of elephants in Europe.  meltBanana  01:41, 21 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Or maybe it was an early example of Kmart realism. Bhumiya (said/done) 21:00, 24 March 2007 (UTC)