Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 November 18

= November 18 =

Norwegian Document
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_language_struggle#Background says in the 3rd paragraph: "The last example found of an original Middle Norwegian document is from 1583.".

I was wondering who is the author of the quoted document, which dialect did he speak, where did he write this document, and which dialect did he write in. Thanks.70.74.35.144 05:46, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * We had much the same question here a few weeks ago (see Samples of Middle Norwegian, on September 23.) Haukur couldn't find any evidence for the 1583 date. Xn4  07:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That doesn't mean it's wrong, of course, just that it isn't in the online edition of Diplomatarium Norvegicum, for whatever reason. Maybe we could be of more help to you if you told us something about what you want to use the information for. Are you writing an historical novel? Haukur 07:56, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm trying to find the durrent dialect of Norwegian that closest to Middle Norwegian.129.128.67.23 (talk) 00:27, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Good luck! That sounds a bit unattainable to me: first, it's likely that some dialects are more conservative in some areas (say, phonology, while others are more conservative in, say, syntax or verbal inflection. Secondly, there were undoubtedly dialects of Middle Norwegian, and they may have been more different from one another than are today's dialects. --ColinFine (talk) 00:26, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

Stiff upper lip
Where on earth did this turn of phrase come from? Does it refer to a specific (presumably good) facial expression? Because I'm trying my darnedest to stiffen my upper lip, and believe me, nothing good is coming of it. --Masamage ♫ 03:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Surely the same as keeping a straight face (which would also be a tough job to practise)? In other words, not allowing your face/mouth to break/creak/wrinkle/curl into a smile? Bessel Dekker (talk) 04:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say it's more in the other direction; not showing signs of frustration/sadness/etc. --Kjoonlee 10:09, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * My assumption was that it's a reference to the fact that when someone's about to cry their upper lip will quiver/tremble. So stiffening it is overcoming the trembling and projecting the outward steadfastness for which the British are world-renowned, chap. Azi Like a Fox (talk) 17:32, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

I say, old chap! Jolly good explanation, what! --ChokinBako (talk) 17:42, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * What our article does say is that the saying originated in America. XD But yes, that seems to make sense. Thanks! --Masamage ♫ 19:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Alfred Nobel
Alfred Nobel middle name is Bernhard. How to read Bernhard ? In the audio that I listened, it said only "Alfred Nobel" but not Bernhard. Could any one please tell me how to read "Bernhard" ? --125.24.35.181 (talk) 07:48, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The IPA should be  Steewi (talk) 10:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * No, the swedish d does not get pronounced as a t, but more as a d as in the english word hard. Also both r's in Bernhard are very close to the english r in hard. Lova Falk (talk) 19:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks LovaFalk, amended IPA then, is . Steewi (talk) 01:05, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I thought "rn" and "rd" were retroflex in Swedish. Shouldn't it be ? —Angr 05:27, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * You are correct. The "rn" and "rd" in Bernhard each makes a single sound, and these sounds are denoted by and  respectively according to our retroflex consonant article. --mglg(talk) 06:17, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * As a non-swede living in Sweden, I asked my husband to pronounce Bernhard, and I hear two sounds in rn and in rd. But I could be wrong... Lova Falk (talk) 06:55, 19 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course, a Gothenburger, a Stockholmite and a Norrlander would each pronounce Bernhard very differently. DuncanHill (talk) 08:25, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

APT ENGLISH WORD FOR 3/4
WE KNOW FOR 1/4---QUARTER 1/2---HALF 1-FULL 3/4???????

SO FOR 3/4, WHAT IS THE CORRECT ENGLISH WORD??


 * wikt:three-quarters Algebraist 14:28, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

three-quarters is the normal term. I don't recall any single-word definition for 3/4. ny156uk (talk) 21:15, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * If they stand alone, I read 1/4 "one quarter" and 1/2, "one half", so "three quarters" fits. It will depend on context whether you would read 3/4 "three quarters", "three-quarters", or "three-quarter".

P.S. Is Sinebot dead? --Milkbreath (talk) 21:23, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * A way to think about it -- 1/4 is one-quarter or just "a quarter", and if you add another you have two-quarters or 2/4. Add another and it's three-quarters. 1/2 and 2/4 are the same, but in some cases you might say two-quarters instead of half (like, "I cut the pizza into quarters. I meant to only eat one but ended up eating two quarters"). You could also say 75% I suppose. Pfly (talk) 22:20, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Also correct is ... "one-fourth ... one-half ... three-fourths ... and full". (Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 23:46, 18 November 2007 (UTC))


 * At the risk of confusing you, we can also mention that in English money until the 1960s, 3/4d is or was "three farthings". Xn4  17:28, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, ¾ d was three farthings. 3/4d was the way to write 3 shillings and 4 pence. —Angr 18:03, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the correction, Angr. I'm on an AZERTY keyboard today, it's a wonder I even managed 3/4d! Xn4  18:13, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

Chinese writing in restaurant
I was at a Chinese/Taiwanese restaurant in Ruoholahti, Helsinki, where I saw this giant wall of Chinese writing. What does it say? J I P | Talk 18:44, 18 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a poem by Li Bai. I found a link to an amateur translation of it: http://chaxiubao.typepad.com/chaxiubao/2005/10/invitation_to_w.html --Zippyt (talk) 22:06, 18 November 2007 (UTC)