Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 November 6

= November 6 =

"North" wind
Why is it called a "north" wind if it blows southward?

Are there any languages in which an English "north wind" would literally be a "south wind"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.0.192.94 (talk) 01:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * As noted in our article on wind, winds are described by the direction from which they flow.  Thus a wind blowing from north to south is called a north wind.  I don't have any information on other languages.  -- LarryMac  | Talk  02:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * For geographical reasons, "west wind" in Chinese means the bitter wind in autumn, not zephyr, which in Chinese is "east wind". Still, "west wind" in Chinese means wind blowing from the west. I'd like to know counter-examples in other languages. Cheers.--K.C. Tang 02:37, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

because its easier to "cover your left!" than to "cover the side from which something coming towards the right would hit you if you were in its trajectory!" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.2.131.176 (talk) 16:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

And yet for reasons I do not understand the term "onshore wind" means that the wind goes toward the "onshore" (the land), rather than from it. (Same with the term "offshore wind", only in reverse.) This has always puzzled me since it seems to contradict the rule for winds named for cardinal directions. Does anyone know why?--Eriastrum 21:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * When you're sailing in open water, you care about where the wind is coming from, not where it's going. When you're maneuvering close to shore or selecting a place to land or drop anchor, you want to know if the wind is going to blow you onto or away from the beach.  They both relate to the wind but they're two different ideas. FiggyBee 03:07, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Figgy, are you answering my question? If so I don't understand the significance of what you are saying. Yes, in a sail boat you are concerned with where the wind is coming from (north wind, etc.). However, the point of my comment is that the terms onshore and offshore winds refer to where the winds are going, not where they are coming from. Am I being especially obtuse in not understanding this seeming contradiction?--Eriastrum 18:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * As Figgy said "When you're maneuvering close to shore or selecting a place to land or drop anchor, you want to know if the wind is going to blow you onto or away from the beach.". That was the answer. When you're comparing wind direction to the position of the land and sea, you're concerned with where the wind is blowing to, when you're naming a particular wind direction based on the compass, you're more concerned with where it's coming from. Skittle 01:00, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That was an answer to your question. We have these phrases in English because some people found them useful. There isn't anyone who sits down and plans the English language, so there's no reason that you should expect the meanings of things to be globally consistent.  r speer  / ɹəəds ɹ  18:19, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, all the European languages I know use the direction the wind is coming from to describe it. For instance, the north wind is vent du nord, Nordwind, vento do norte, viento del norte, wiatr północny, etc. Xn4  01:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * There are many languages where "North wind" is rendered as "Wind from the north", so the potential for confusion noted by the questioner is absent. I'm not sure if there are languages where the name would be "Wind to the south". jnestorius(talk) 01:17, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you like worthless musings, I'd always thought that there was ancient personification or deification involved. Some thing up thataway was blowing the wind at us, and its name is the North Wind. --Milkbreath 01:19, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Sure, as in Oscar Wilde's The Selfish Giant - "Then they invited the North Wind to stay with them, and he came. He was wrapped in furs, and he roared all day..." Xn4  01:30, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * My favourite short story of all. Which reminds me, I haven't seen my friend the Cornish ogre for a while.  I must pay him a visit; but my conversation is almost non-existent so I won't be staying anything like seven years.  --  JackofOz 02:39, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Eriastrum's question is still relevant. I note that "offshore wind" in french is "vent de terre" i.e. it describes from whence the wind is coming. Apparently the French, unlike the English, when sailing close to the beach are not worried about where the wind is blowing to. Winds of change? Very Strange. --Pontificateus

French to English translation of album titles
Belgian rock band Aksak Maboul released two albums, Onze Danses Pour Combattre la Migraine and Un Peu de l'Âme des Bandits. The first title I have translated (hopefully correctly) as "Eleven Dances to Fight a Migraine", but it's the second I'm having trouble with. Can anyone help please? --Bruce1ee 06:47, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "A Bit of the Spirit of the Bandits". For "spirit" you can also substitute "soul". --Lambiam 08:59, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The first might be better translated as "Eleven Dances for Fighting Migraine", but it's a fine shade of meaning. The second could also be " A Little of the Bandit Spirit" or "A Little Bandit Soul". SaundersW 10:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * That last could be misconstrued (a small soul?), so I'd prefer A Bit of Bandit Soul. &mdash;Tamfang 02:55, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks guys, you've been a great help. --Bruce1ee 05:39, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Translitering Russian.
I have a CD by a band named "Киоск" called "Не Без Чудес". Can anyone do me the favour of transliterating that artist name/title into the Latin alphabet (not translating into English)? I'd appreciate it. Froglars the frog 10:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Approximately "Kiosk" and "Nye byez choodyess" - but see Romanization of Russian for how to do it "properly" AndrewWTaylor 11:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "Nye byez choodyess" is more phonetic, but a more correct Romanization would be "Ne bez chudes". &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 12:14, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * See also ISO 9. Xn4  07:30, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

"the one who hired me"
Hey,

Is "HIRER" and "HIRERERS" actual words? a bit like the word "Employee"...

So the one who hired me, can I call her a "hirer"? and the oneS who hired me, can I call THEM "Hirers/Hirerers"?

I dont see them in any wordbook... I guess Hirerers doesnt really sound like a real word, but hirer might, even though i find the sound of that a bit strange too..

thanks Krikkert7 14:41, 6 November 2007 (UTC)


 * "Hirer" is definitely an English word, either meaning "one who hires staff" i.e. employer or "one who hires out equipment" - as in this list of "inflatable hirers" (i.e. companies that hire out inflatables). The term "hiree" is occassionally used for "one who hires equipment" as here. I suppose it could also mean "one who is hired", but I think that usage would be much rarer. Gandalf61 15:00, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * And "hirerer" is definitely not a word. --Richardrj talkemail 15:27, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * On a New-World note, Americans "rent" things instead of "hiring" them [out], for the most part. (I think we can hire a cab, but we definitely rent a car.) And, yes, "hirer[s]" is a word, but it is not often called for in ordinary conversation. Nobody I know would say "my hirer" when they meant "the one who hired me", but the one who hired you might well be called a hirer in regard to his or her position at the company. This is one of those words that sounds stranger and stranger each time you say it, like "sleep". --Milkbreath 15:51, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If I were to hire a machine, I'd expect an operator to come with it. &mdash;Tamfang 02:53, 10 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Odd though it sounds, I can see no harm in hirer, but I'm afraid hiree has me reaching for my red pencil. Xn4  21:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * When you've finished with it, can I borrow it for attendee, invitee, and all the other ees which have been breeeding at an alarming rate? Bazza 14:15, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm the administrator for a tutorial program - my contract gives me responsibility for "tutors and tutees". My little brother also used to speak of "bullies and bullee-es". СПУТНИК CCC  P 18:34, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * If you're the administrator, who are your administratees? Another favorite of mine is "mentee". —Angr 19:11, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * What about the abominable "honoree" (it's only ever seen in the States, in my experience. We don't have "honourees" here).  --  JackofOz 00:17, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * The point about the suffix -ee is that it's the French past participle -é, anglicized. There's no problem with importing a French word like employé as 'employee', and we just have to live with tutee, which is in the dictionaries and is at least from a Latin root. But 'hire' is a wholly Germanic word (from the Old English hyrian), so to try to turn that into a French participle is laughable. It reminds me of an English-speaking woman I heard once in Italy who had lost her hotel and was trying to describe it to a friendly policeman... "è grando, è splendido, è nearbyio". Xn4  00:59, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm reminded of an old skit by (I think) Flip Wilson where a group of people were arraigned before a judge and everyone was talking at once, trying to give their version of whatever the argument was about and pointing various fingers of blame. The judge called for silence and asked someone "Am I speaking to the allegator or the allegatee?".  --  JackofOz 02:31, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


 * This judge was pulling their legs. Or was he from Florida? Xn4  11:09, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Naming conventions
If an initial (real estate) pool of properties is named PROPERTY POOL V, when the pool is amended, what would be the correct way to refer to, and entitle, the amended pool? PROPERTY POOL V-A; PROPERTY POOL V(a); or ????Searcher001 19:22, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

The latter. The former would suggest a series or cross section going. from V to A. 83.147.141.69 19:45, 6 November 2007 (UTC)