Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 October 14

= October 14 =

proestro - English?
Is 'proestro' an English word or at least suitable for an English publication? As best I can tell it comes from Spanish, but it sometimes used in English, perhaps only be non-native users, but I'm not sure whether it's appropriate or not. It has to do with animal beeding. --Seans Potato Business 12:19, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm no expert, but maybe it's a contraction of proestrogen? Proestrogen is the precursor to estrogen. --Kjoonlee 12:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * "Proestro" is not in the OED, but "proestrus" is. I've never heard it, either, by the way. To judge by the website I looked at, "proestro" is jargon from veterinary science for a stage of proestrus in dogs (and maybe other critters). So, it does eem to be an English word, but if you are writing for the average English-speaking audience you won't be able to use "proestro" unless you define it. I hope a vet weighs in here. --Milkbreath 14:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * At a guess, proestro is the Latin ablative case; you'd say in proestro just as you'd say in utero (from uterus). —Tamfang 08:56, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Some kind of phonetic popularity reference?
I'm looking, and so far have been unsuccessful, for some sort of reference as to how popular certain sounds are universally. For example, b is a very common sound in many different languages, while θ is not. Additional information (for example, that while b and d are equally common, variations of the allophone b are more common than variations of the allophone d) would be great. The Wikipedia pages on the IPA and individual consonants and vowels just aren't factual enough for my needs. Help?

Deshi no Shi 15:58, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You might try Patterns of Sounds by Ian Maddieson (ISBN 0521265363). —Angr 16:52, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Phonology by Roger Lass has some information on system typology which you may find useful (/p/ is more common than /b/, if you have only one fricative it's most likely to be /s/, 86% of all languages have a /j/ phoneme, stuff like that). You can browse it on Google Books before you decide to buy it. Haukur 17:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Not exactly an answer, but in some languages, and  are perceived to be variants of a single sound. I suspect taro was the same word as kalo, historically. --Kjoonlee 18:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Um, since "taro" has a t, not a p, your second sentence is a non sequitur. And yes, taro and kalo are etymologically related; in Hawaiian, t->k (after k->ʔ in a chain shift), and r->l. —Angr 18:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * D'oh, I meant and, obviously. Well, I still think there are some languages that don't distinguish t and k. --Kjoonlee 17:16, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The Cambridge Encyclopedia of Language by David Crystal is a handy popular introduction to many fields of linguistics, including this. —Tamfang 08:54, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Etymology
What is the etymology of "cleveland steamer"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.227.21.225 (talk) 18:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Wiktionary has the reason for the steamer part, but as for the Cleveland part, your guess is as good as mine.  NA SC AR Fan 24 (radio me!) 18:59, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Neither is our article of much help on the issue. The ever-reliable Urban Dictionary, in the sixth definition offered, suggests, rather, I would say, dubiously, that Cleveland means to refer to the cleavage of a woman, proximate to which the steamer is deposited.  Joe 19:51, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * According to the Online Etymology Dictionary, Cleveland laid out 1796 by Gen. Moses Cleaveland and later named for him. His descendants included U.S. President Grover Cleveland. The family name is from place names in England based on M.E. cleove, a variant of cliff. I'd expect it was named after the city in Ohio. - Mgm|(talk) 09:11, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Greek COA motto - need characters and translation
Could someone help me get the greek characters from this coat of arms: Image:St Micheal's College University of Toronto.jpg. Thanks, nattan g 19:00, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It says ΕΥΣΕΒΕΙΑ - ΜΟΥΣΙΚΗ - ΓΥΜΝΑΣΤΙΚΗ, which means "piety - music - gymnastics" (a rather odd trio). —Angr 19:05, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, #2 and #3 together sum up Classical Greek education and can often be found paired in Plato, Xenophon, etc. (gymnastics as training of the body, mousike covering the entire education of the mind, not only poetry/music&mdash;though poetry of course was foundational for Greek education in a way it hasn't been in later periods&mdash;but every other branch of learning & philosophy & the liberal arts; see, the synopsis of Rival Lovers). #1 Christianizes it.  Wareh 20:11, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There ought to be an article on Education in Ancient Greece; the closest we seem to have is Paideia, which is so bad I'm putting the cleanup tag on it. Wareh 20:27, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Name for the disk in the bottom of a urinal?
What do you call the disk that you often see in the bottom of a urinal? I believe that an informal term is "piss puck", but what is the formal term for it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.210.130.121 (talk) 20:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Urinal cake? Skittle 20:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Poking around Google with "janitorial supplies", I found several sites that call them "blocks". Urinal block or bowl block, depending. Not a very colorful name, eh? --Milkbreath 20:49, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, but thank God it's not a bowel block. --  JackofOz 23:14, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Greek phrase
I've heard that the Greeks had a phrase, "look to the end", meaning to look at how a person died before assessing his life. What is the original Greek version of this phrase? Cevlakohn 21:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It's from Herodotus' Histories, Book 1, chapter 32, spoken by Solon. In Greek: σκοπέειν δὲ χρὴ παντὸς χρήματος τὴν τελευτήν, κῇ ἀποβήσεται, "It is necessary to examine the end of every matter, how it will turn out."  Do yourself a big favor, and read the wonderful context: start at the top of this page and read up to this quotation, which is there translated "But we must of every thing examine the end and how it will turn out at the last." Wareh 23:17, 14 October 2007 (UTC)