Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 September 13

= September 13 =

Word meaning "impoverished aristocrat"
I'm looking for a word that means "impoverished aristocrat," please. I have been up and down the OED in vain looking for this one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fatcat1111 (talk • contribs) 00:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * This probably won't help, but perhaps a riff on "genteel poverty" could help... --24.211.242.80 02:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Is there a word for that? I thought of "rake", as in A Rake's Progress, but that refers to his pre-impoverished condition. I also thought of Beau Brummell, since he ended up poor and crazy too, but I guess that only refers to a well-dressed person. Adam Bishop 02:21, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Doesn't rake refer to his behavior rather than his station? &mdash;Tamfang 22:07, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The only ones I know of are "déclassé" and "shabby-genteel". In her book Shirley, Charlotte Bronte uses the word "downdraughts" (or "downdrafts" as it would be spelled in American English). AnonMoos 02:37, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Is this for a crossword puzzle? If so, how many letters etc. In English, even if there is a single word with that meaning you might be better off just using the phrase impoverished aristocrat or penniless aristocrat. Or are you looking for something like the French term fr:nouveau pauvre? --Mathew5000 02:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * No, not for a crossword - this is simply something from the dim recesses of my mind. It's such a stock character(Henry James, Marcel Proust, Charles Dickens and on and on). Déclassé isn't what I had in mind, but it works very well - the OED says the noun form means "One who has been reduced or degraded from one's social class." Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fatcat1111 (talk • contribs) 20:33, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * distressed gentleman is one I've seen more than once. &mdash;Tamfang 22:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

gender names
To which gender the word 'nurse' belongs? Aangilam 04:32, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * English doesn't use grammatical gender (with a few exceptions, according to the article). However, nurses are usually assumed to be female, so much so that the phrase "male nurse" is used a lot to indicate otherwise. Clarityfiend 05:05, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, even in sentences such as the one a friend of mine uttered, "My brother is a male nurse" (as if he could possibly be a female one!). —Angr 06:10, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * And although, there is a perfectly good gender specific word for them, I often refer to male air hostesses. Though that's more to do with me making a joke than the English language. Cyta 07:14, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * male model is another. (On another hand, I'm thinking of Edith Bunker's response on meeting a female impersonator.)  I suspect this happens largely because people don't always analyze the phrases they use.  I sometimes buy teriyaki turkey jerky (I love saying that) and my housemate has to struggle not to call it beef jerky, because to her beef jerky is one lexeme.  &mdash;Tamfang 22:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * As the others mentioned, there's no grammatical gender to speak of in English. The word "nurse," though, is connected in its etymology and its history with the act of breastfeeding .  Although wet nurses are not so common in much of the English-speaking world any more, the word does still carry that meaning as a noun.  As a verb, "nurse" has a range of meanings, from practicing a medical profession, to caring for a sick person in general, to breastfeeding.  That's why, although a man can become a nurse, the word has a strong connection with femininity.  --Reuben 07:38, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I'd say it's more because the vast majority of nurses, even today, are female. -Elmer Clark 19:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Lost letters
What's the most recent alphabetic character to fall out of common use in English? GeeJo (t)⁄(c) &bull; 16:50, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm going to suggest Thorn (letter), but maybe there's a better answer I'm not thinking of.  If alternate forms of still-used letters count, Long s.  Wareh 17:28, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * How about Æ|Ash, dropping out as we speak. DuncanHill 20:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * But æ hasn't been used as a letter in English for a long time (if ever). Whether it's an alphabetic character is less clear (was it ever part of the alphabet?). Tesseran 00:21, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure, Æ|ash was an essential part of the Old English alphabet. Later, it was often used in English for the diphthong ae in many words and names of Latin and Greek origins, even though the ancient Romans themselves didn't have æ. While that use does continue in English, as Duncan says it seems to be falling away fast: perhaps because few people know how to type æ on their PCs! Xn4 01:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I was trying to say that the symbol under discussion was (in its Latin-inspired use) a ligature, rather than a letter. But I found (regarding ampersand, at ligature) "Like many other ligatures, it has at times been considered a letter ..." so perhaps this distinction is not as strict as I thought. Tesseran 04:58, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * In any event, the OP used the term 'alphabetic character', not 'letter'. Xn4 23:17, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * f-ligatures are definitely dropping out of use as we speak. (Try typing one of those on a PC!) The fi in serif newspaper headlines these days looks dreadful.--Shantavira|feed me 09:18, 14 September 2007 (UTC)


 * How about Long s? Corvus cornix 16:39, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Congratulations to all contributing here. Your ignorance-busting efforts have won the fourth ever User:Dweller/Dweller's Ref Desk thread of the week award. Good job. --Dweller 14:00, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

What Word Describes This Idea?
Consider this scenario, or any similar type situations: I am talking on the phone with a friend -- there is something that I want to mention -- but I can't for the life of me think of (remember) what it is. Of course, the very minute we hang up the phone, that's when I remember it. What is the English word that would best be used for that? Second question: would "it's on the tip of my tongue" be accurate or not? I think not (but I am unsure). The "tip of the tongue" refers to my not remembering the info ... that is, it is on the tip of my tongue, but I can't get it any further than that tip ... meaning, it won't come out of my mouth (i.e., be spoken). But what my scenario above is trying to describe is not the forgetful part -- but, rather, the sudden / untimely recollection part. Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro 20:06, 13 September 2007 (UTC))


 * Well, it was "on the tip of your tongue" during the phone call. Afterwards, if it had been a retort you'd wanted to make, it would be l'esprit de l'escalier, but I realize this doesn't apply to a topic you'd wanted to introduce, but remembered too late. All I can think of is to gather up all the proverbial expressions for "too late": day late & a dollar short, too little too late, etc. Wareh 21:16, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Or you go to get something in another room and then can't remember what you came for, until you go back to the first room ... It's presumably related to "context-dependent learning". &mdash;Tamfang 22:02, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Or like a more active form of "Cue-dependent forgetting"; by trying hard to remember something, you can keep leading yourself down the wrong mental path and end up at a dead end. As soon as you stop trying so hard, it comes to you. FiggyBee 05:46, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde - Time Line
I just got finished reading this book and to tell you the truth I do not get this story at all or what went on in it. It's not that I can't pay any attention but for me it is almost impossible to read these poem like books. Anyway every book that I do read I keep a time line of the major events that happened in the story. It's just a fun little thing I like to do even though I don't like the book. However I am asking if someone could do me a favor and just take up a few minutes of your time (who has read the book) to make a major event time line right here so I can make a document putting your words in to my own words and of course crediting you. Thank you so much! 21:11, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the humanities desk would be a better place for this question. —Angr 21:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Haha, assuming good faith and all, but if this is an attempt to get someone to do your homework, it's an unusually clever one. -Elmer Clark 04:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Or, at least, unusually complicated. Xn4 23:08, 14 September 2007 (UTC)