Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2007 September 17

= September 17 =

Korean translation
Would anyone with some knowledge in Korean please translate the following into English: 제목없음. Thank you!

207.161.3.132 00:19, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * "No title." Or in the context of email, "No subject."  -- Visviva 00:21, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Thank you!. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.161.3.132 (talk) 00:26, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

What is the Correct Pronoun to Use Here?
"The Godfather" is a film trilogy with Parts 1, 2, and 3. "The Lord of the Rings" is also a film trilogy with Parts 1, 2, and 3. All six of these films have been nominated for a Best Picture Oscar.

What is the correct pronoun to use in the sentences below and why? Is the pronoun singular (its) or plural (their) and why? That is, does the pronoun take the place of "this trilogy only as considered separately" or "both of these trilogies as considered collectively" ... and why?

I do realize that I can reword everything to avoid this issue. But, assuming that I want to maintain this construction, what is the proper pronoun to do so? Thanks. (Joseph A. Spadaro 01:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC))


 * "The Godfather" is the first of only two trilogies to have all three of its films nominated for Best Picture.


 * "The Lord of the Rings" is the second of only two trilogies to have all three of its films nominated for Best Picture.

versus


 * "The Godfather" is the first of only two trilogies to have all three of their films nominated for Best Picture.


 * "The Lord of the Rings" is the second of only two trilogies to have all three of their films nominated for Best Picture.


 * I would say "its" because "their" implies a person. However, I would rewrite it to avoid the problem - "...trilogies of which all three films were nominated..." Adam Bishop 01:07, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The correct word is "their". Pronouns have the same number as their referent, in this case, "trilogies", which is plural.  Therefore it is the plural possessive, "their", not the singular possessive, "its".  "Their" does not imply a person.  It is the correct possessive pronoun for plural referents, both animate and inanimate.  Incidentally, if you were to begin the sentence "'The Godfather' is the first trilogy...", the correct ending (following your model) would be "...to have all three of its films nominated for Best Picture", because "trilogy" is singular.  Marco polo 01:54, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree. The pronoun refers to "first" and "second", so its should be its.  "The Godfather" is the first ... to have all three of its films nominated for Best Picture. —Nricardo 01:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Nope, Marco polo had it exactly right. Only two trilogies have had all three of their films nominated, and The Godfather was the first of them.  If you were saying "The Godfather is the first trilogy to have all three of its films nominated", that would be fine, but changing "the first trilogy" to "the first of only two trilogies" changes the referent from the first trilogy to two trilogies, hence a plural pronoun is required.  --  JackofOz 03:02, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Let's try it this way: Johnny is the first of the five boys to lose [his | their] teeth. Pick the right answer.  —Nricardo 04:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That's not so easy because it's an ambiguous sentence without a context. If you're referring to those 5 boys standing over there, one of whom is Johnny, and at least two of them just happen to have lost their teeth, then it's "Johnny is the first of the five boys to lose his teeth" (= of those 5 boys standing over there, Johnny was the first to lose his teeth).  But if you're referring to a group of 5 boys, all of whom have lost their teeth, and Johnny was the first to do so, then it would be "Johnny is the first of the five boys to lose their teeth" (= of those 5 boys who've lost their teeth, Johnny was the first).  In other words, the composition of the group of boys is defined either by their all having lost teeth, or by some other factor such as they're all standing over there (and their tooth loss is just incidental).  In the case where Johnny is the only one of the 5 to have lost his teeth, then in the first scenario it would be "Johnny is the only one of the 5 boys to have lost his teeth".  This wouldn't apply in the second scenario because they've all lost their teeth. --  JackofOz 04:46, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Need Chinese reference or advice
The article section G%C3%B6del%2C_Escher%2C_Bach is flagged for the unreferenced assertion:

Jí Yì Bì (集异璧, literally "collection of exotic jade") which is homophonic to GEB in Chinese.

Can someone verify or refute this, or otherwise help clear this up? Thanks. dr.ef.tymac 04:17, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The full Chinese title should be Ji yibi zhi dacheng, which means something like "a conglomeration of different jades", with "bi" being a kind of jade (circular in shape) in ancient China. The "jades" here supposedly refer to the works of Gödel, Escher and Bach. Full bibliographical information: Gedeer, Aisheer, Bahe: ji yibi zhi dacheng (哥德尔、艾舍尔、巴赫: 集异璧之大成). Trans. Guo Weide et al.. Beijing: Commercial Press. 1997. ISBN 7100013232.--K.C. Tang 06:34, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the reply, that helps. dr.ef.tymac 01:55, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Word which rhymes with "fight" and "write"
Can anyone please suggest a word, preferably with one syllable, which means "to study" and rhymes with "fight" and "write"? Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.132.35.252 (talk) 08:36, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * perhaps dive [into a subject]?--K.C. Tang 08:50, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Dive doesn't rhyme with fight and write! - Adrian Pingstone 09:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Could you, dear Adrian, be so kind; as to forgive my assonant rhyme?--K.C. Tang 09:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's a list of one-syllable words that rhyme with "write" and "fight". Might any of them be useful? SaundersW 09:21, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Bight (recess of a bay), bite, cite, dight (archaic, clad), fight, height, kite, light, might, night, pight (archaic, to throw), quite, rite, right, sight, site, tight, white, wight (archaic, human)
 * From that list, all I can see that matches "study" is "up all night". :D H YENASTE 01:50, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Bight (or was it bite?) also has uses in nautical terminology and other, ah, terminology which involves ropes - it means to fold the rope over, if I remember correctly. Kuronue | Talk 00:58, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
 * from Wiktionary --antilivedT 09:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * 'Cite' is involved in study but does have a more specialised meaning than simply 'to study'. If you can't find another one, and you're writing poetry, you may have to restructure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steewi (talk • contribs) 02:35, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Scaglia orazio aci S. Antonio
A decade ago, I was given a wood carving showing warriors fighting. Beneath was written "Scaglia Orazio aci S. Antonio," if I remember correctly, for I have passed it on to my brother. I interpreted the motto as "send a prayer to/for us San Anthony." It this the correct translation? What battle might be depicted? The origin of the carving most likely is Naples.LShecut2nd 12:52, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * I think it's the name of a person (Orazio Scaglia) followed by the name of a place (Aci Sant'Antonio). "Scaglia" can mean "throw" or "cast" (imperative mode) or "s/he throws", but this doesn't make much sense here ("Cast Orazio, Aci Sant'Antonio!"? Orazio throws Aci Sant'Antonio."?) Orazio is the Italian name for Horace, and Orazio Scaglia seems to have been an Italian racecar driver active in the early 1970s (google's results for "Orazio Scaglia"). Aci Sant'Antonio is a small Sicilian town and larger comune. Based on these results and the information you gave us, it's very difficult to guess what battle might be depicted. ---Sluzzelin talk  17:36, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
 * As it happens, even our short article on Aci Sant'Antonio mentions a notable wood carver, Giorgio Petralia. According to the Italian article on Aci Sant'Antonio, "not everyone knows that Aci S.Antonio is the home of the the carved wooden Sicilian cart (citation needed). There are still shops where it's possible to admire the skilled and spectacular art of the master "carradori" and master painters (such as Nerina Chiarenza and Domenico di Mauro). The sides of the carts depict the by now famous scenes of chivalric tradition (Roland, Charlemagne) and characters such as Saint Alphius and his brothers, as well as Saint Agatha, and Saint Rosalia."
 * Maybe there is a connection to your carving. ---Sluzzelin talk  19:49, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

The carving is a fragment that could have been on a carrozza Siciliana. My friend found it in the street during the San Gennaro festival in NYC. He said that a building was being razed near by. Basic colors were used to paint the carving. The soldiers have helmets and shields.LShecut2nd 12:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I asked Sicilian George (Giorgio) Petralia to answer the questions posed.

He responds.

"Orazio Scaglia" is the name of the master carratore, (Giorgio knows him) or master cart builder. He lived and worked, may be still alive, in A'cci San Antonio, in the province of Catania Sicily, "the city of the sicilian carretto" "La citta del carreto sicilian"

The battles were described hy Georgio Petralia (Concetto Petralia) as representing battles of the crusades or Orlando Furioso, nephews to the King of France (Rolando) and or the Knights of the Round Table, fighting in the Holy Wars in the middle east with the "Arabs" or "Moores"

--Caesar J.B. Squitti: Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti (talk) 21:03, 29 July 2009 (UTC)