Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 August 2

= August 2 =

Barbara Walters's accent
What is Barbara Walters's accent? Please identify it as specifically as possible. —Lowellian (reply) 00:04, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Her accent results from the speech impediment rhotacism. It's mostly corrected now, but you can definitely hear it on her television appearances from decades ago. Strad (talk) 01:34, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay, but a speech impediment is not a regional accent, and she still has a distinctive way of speaking even today. So more information please? —Lowellian (reply) 04:45, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that her accent can be considered an example of Locust Valley lockjaw. Marco polo (talk) 15:42, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

So the thing is, I've heard a lot of people say that she has a Northeastern/New England accent. Others are more specific and claim that she has a Boston accent. I've heard other people be even more specific and state that she has a Boston Brahmin accent. I've heard other people say that is entirely incorrect and claim instead that she has a New York accent. Others state that it is not just a New York accent, but a Jewish New York accent. And others have claimed that it is a Transatlantic accent. So thus far, I've encountered the following claims:


 * Rhotacism
 * Locust Valley lockjaw
 * Northeastern/New England accent
 * Boston accent
 * Boston Brahmin accent
 * New York accent
 * Jewish New York accent
 * Transatlantic accent

Clearly all these claims can't all be right, and I don't know whose statement to trust over anyone anyone else's. Why is her accent so hard to pin down? Maybe someone can give examples of her speech to back up their assertions that she has such-and-such an accent?

—Lowellian (reply) 16:35, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Her accent is hard to pin down because few people know how to recognize the subtle differences between the old elite accents of New York and those of Boston. The New York variety, with a dash of RP thrown in, was the basis for the Transatlantic accent of 1930s Hollywood.  I will admit that I had a grandmother with something akin to Locust Valley lockjaw.  I grew up in the New York area but have lived most of my adult life in the Boston area, bastion of the Kerrys, Kennedys, and Boston Brahmins.  (I'm not one of them.)  To my ears—and I am keenly aware of the differences, mainly in vowels—Barbara Walters's accent is clearly a New York rather than a Boston accent.  Unfortunately, I can't point you to any recordings or linguistic analyses of her speech.  Marco polo (talk) 19:10, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Professor Higgins, your advice would be appreciated. --  JackofOz (talk) 21:51, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't think we'll improve much on Marco's answer, which rings true. It seems very likely that like many (if not most) people now, Barbara Walters has a mixture of accents in her voice. Xn4  ( talk ) 01:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Vocabulary
What does “polyoxylated” mean: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysorbate_80?

What does “crisis health worker” mean: http://www.nationalpost.com/most_popular/story.html?id=692762?68.148.164.166 (talk) 02:53, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * For "polyoxylation", it's a chemistry term, so you would be more likely to get a meaningful answer asking at the Science Reference Desk than here. I suggest you go ask that question again over there.


 * —Lowellian (reply) 08:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In this case it means has had many ethylene oxide groups reacted and attatched to it eg the parts in the structure that are -(C2H4-O)n-
 * 87.102.86.73 (talk) 12:45, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * See Ethoxylation - 'polyethoxylated' would be a clearer term.87.102.86.73 (talk) 12:46, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Based on context, by "crisis health worker", that news article presumably meant a mental health worker/professional called in to deal with psychological trauma from an unexpected, sudden, violent, life-threatening situation. This is not common usage, and the news article could have been better written and used a more specific, less confusing term. —Lowellian (reply) 08:21, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Sports articles or Sport articles
Hi, I have working on WikiProject Sports and created some categories with name like Category:Unassessed sports articles, but I think that this is incorrect and should be sport articles. Can someone confirm? Cheers. Carlosguitar (Yes Executor?) 15:02, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * According to the definitions at Wiktionary and Dictionary.com, sport, when used as an adjective, is synonymous with sports. If you're interested in usage, "sport shoes" returns about 3 million google results while "sports shoes" returns about 4.2 million. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 16:41, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This just depends on where you live. In North America, newspapers have a sports sections and the project is about sports articles.  In Britain, newspapers have a sport section and the project is about sport articles.  In articles that don't relate to specific countries, Wikipedia policy allows for either type of English, and whoever gets there first gets to decide. So there should not be a change.  --Anonymous, 18:52 UTC, August 2, 2008.


 * Thank you guys, so I will leave how is it. Carlosguitar (Yes Executor?) 20:56, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Is this like “math” and “maths? &#x2013; b_jonas 12:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Not really, because in that case both forms are singular. --Anon, 18:24 UTC, August 5.
 * ...but in referring to the school subject "mathematics," the word "math" is US usage and "maths" is UK. -- Deborahjay (talk) 06:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

What is origin of web dialect Examples Puppehs (puppies) Haz (have/has) Teh (the)
I see this often in pet websites, but not exclusively (example "teh gayz"). What/where/when/who is the origin? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ondine Breck (talk • contribs) 18:13, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's probably leet, as spoken by lolcats. 128.148.38.26 (talk) 18:22, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Some words, such as "teh" and "pwned", probably originated as typos. --Bowlhover (talk) 21:01, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Yeah, this is definitely lolcatz. —Lowellian (reply) 21:05, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In case you miss the internal link there, teh has a page of its own. -- Deborahjay (talk) 05:07, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Abstract nouns
Is there any way of deciding whether a noun is "abstract" or not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.164.115 (talk) 23:37, 2 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This might not work in absolutely every case, but the general rule of thumb is that if it isn't a physical object (book, woman, apple, tree) or doesn't represent such an object (paper, queen, fruit, wood), then it's abstract. Words like beauty, anger, and indifference are not objects that can be seen or touched, so they're abstract.  --  JackofOz (talk) 00:33, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In other words, here "abstract" = "intangible". StuRat (talk) 01:59, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * That's right. 'Abstract noun' is closely related to the philosophers' word abstracta - see abstract object. Xn4  ( talk ) 00:50, 3 August 2008 (UTC)


 * There are some where it is difficult to say: Humanity, the North Pole, Journey's end and so on. Others can be concrete or abstract depending on context; Calendar (the Gregorian calendar vs my desk Calendar), office (the one I am in vs the office of president), etc. -- Q Chris (talk) 12:52, 4 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Exactly. Whether something is abstract or complete can depend on the listener as well.  My example (that I keep repeating again and again) is when on a functional analysis course the professor said something like “Let's examine a concrete example.  Let A be a self-adjoint operator.”  We laughed because we, as second-year students, didn't feel like that was a concrete example.   However, the professor said “concrete” completely seriously, and someone familiar enough with functional analysis like a graduated physicist would certainly have agreed about “concrete”.  &#x2013; b_jonas 12:25, 5 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I guess he/she was making a distinction between abstract theory and a live example to illustrate what he/she was talking about. In that relative sense, it's more concrete; but in absolute terms I agree it's still abstract.  Grammatically, the things that are abstract or concrete are not sentences or phrases, but single nouns.  "A" could be concrete if you were referring to the letter as written on a page, as distinct from the mental idea of whatever "A" is.  "Operator" - hard to tell.  Again, if you were equating it to the letter A written on a page, it could be concrete, but as a general concept it's abstract.  So, yes, there are grey areas.  They make life more interesting, don't they.  --  JackofOz (talk) 22:49, 6 August 2008 (UTC)