Wikipedia:Reference desk/Archives/Language/2008 August 27

= August 27 =

Searching for books
To whom it may concern, How do you search for books referring to certain subjects? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Narnia114 (talk • contribs) 00:34, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There are various ways. Why not google the subject (in "quotes") adding the word bibliography? For instance: assume you are looking for books on Angus Wilson. Type "Angus Wilson" bibliography . Bessel Dekker (talk) 00:42, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Or using Google Books.--Thanks, Ainlina(box)? 09:17, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

El Hombre Gordo
Please translate my user name into Spanish, Italian and numerous other languages. Human translations only, please. Thank you, The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 03:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * One possible Latin translation: Homo pinguis qui numquam rediit. Deor (talk) 03:59, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * French: Le gros qui ne revint jamais.--Lgriot (talk) 05:02, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Japanese: 帰ってこなかった肥満男 (Ka'ette konakatta himan-otoko) or 帰ってこなかったデブ男 (Ka'ette konakatta debu-otoko. Oda Mari (talk) 05:54, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * kaette konakatta himandan(?) or kaette konakatta debudan(?). [I'm only familiar with himan-sita otoko etc.] kwami (talk)
 * Chinese: 再也没有回来的胖子(simpl.)/再也沒有回來的胖子(trad.) --antilivedT 06:18, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * zài yě méiyǒu húiláide pánshi —kwami (talk)
 * Assuming it's pinyin isn't it zài yě méiyǒu húiláide pàngzǐ? --antilivedT 07:04, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Spanish: el hombre gordo que nunca regresó. — Æµ§œš¹  [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 07:28, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My best Czech: Tlustý muž, který se nikdy vrátil. -- Mwalcoff (talk) 07:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Italian: L'uomo grasso che non tornava mai -- Ferkelparade &pi; 08:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that should be "che non tornò mai." --Lgriot (talk) 23:31, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * But wouldn't that imply that we had given up all hope for his return? I personally still believe that the fat man will someday come back, that's why I went with "tornava" :P -- Ferkelparade &pi; 19:06, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The meaning of the imperfect is not about hope. It is about repetition or the fact that the action is not completed: "tornava" basically sort of means that he repeatedly did not return. So it sounds like he left the place A, left the place B, and left the place C, and never returned to A, also never returned to B, and never returned to C. He kept not returning. In English, it would be translated at "never came back" too, because there is no distinction between repeated action and final one-off action that was completed at the past (there is only the preterit). But my assumption is the fat man left from one single place, and never came back to that single place, not multiple places. --Lgriot (talk) 03:59, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Romanian: Bărbatul gras care nu s-a mai întors niciodatǎ. 92.81.7.77 (talk) 08:54, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * German: Der dicke Mann, der nie zurückgekommen ist. —Angr 09:10, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Elizabethan English: Jack Falstaff. — OtherDave (talk) 15:38, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Irish Gaelic: An fear romhar nach thar n-ais fós. Fribbler (talk) 16:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's lacking the verb for "came", and "fós" means "(not) yet", not "never". I'd say "An fear romhar ramhar nár tháinig riamh ar ais". —Angr 17:32, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Sigh, sometimes I feel like handin' me passport back :-) You are right, of course. Fribbler (talk) 17:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Azari Turkish: Yoqun kiśi ke heś vaqt gitmadi. Omidinist (talk) 18:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Persian: مرد چاقی که هرگز برنگشت Omidinist (talk) 18:25, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Mard châqi ke hargez bar n--(?) kwami (talk)
 * mard-e châq-i ke hargez barnagasht. --Omidinist (talk) 04:21, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Pig Latin! E-thay at-fay an-may o-hay ever-nay ame-cay ack-bay!
 * Advanced l33t! +3|-| f4T |\/|@N w|-|o |\|3\/er C4|\/|3 8@c|< Dgcopter (talk) 18:37, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Korean: 다시는 돌아오지 않은 뚱뚱한 남자. --Kjoonlee 18:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Dasineun doraoji anheun ttungttunghan namja. kwami (talk)
 * Dutch: De dikke man die nooit meer terugkwam. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.171.56.13 (talk) 19:21, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Swahili: Mnene asiyerudi kamwe. kwami (talk) 01:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Fantastic stuff, people! A few questions/requests: I love the Reference Desk. --The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 01:15, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * A Russian translation, please please please? (the Fat Man reads and pronounces Cyrillic well, but his vocab is nonexistent)
 * Any chance of getting transliterations for some of those non-Latin characters (especially the Japanese)? If anyone does Hebrew or Arabic, transliterations would be appreciated as well.
 * I know zero French and am intrigued by the brevity of the French translation. Isn't gros an adjective?  If so, does it double as noun, similar to how we might refer to important people or certain basketball players as "bigs"?
 * Old English, anyone? Anyone want to go Scandinavian?
 * Old English: Se fætta man se þe næfre ongeanferde. Deor (talk) 01:50, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

(There's almost certainly a more idiomatic way of translating it, but being a mere idiot I don't know what it is). -- JackofOz (talk) 03:34, 28 August 2008 (UTC) See Kpalion's version. - JackofOz (talk) 22:01, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not a native speaker either, but I think this would be better: Толстяк, который никогда не вернулся. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 16:23, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * French: Adjectives can be made nouns if it is obvious what they refer to, like in your example. The meaning of "le gros" was originally "the fat one". However in this case, "one" cannot be feminine or plural (because that would be "La grosse" or "Les gros"). So to refer to a fat guy, people started to say "Le gros", or refer to a fat woman, "La grosse" etc, meaning the fat one. This is now so used that you don't need to say "man" any longer as a standard, if you don't specify what is fat, then it is a singular person, and masculine, a man. This is just like in english "blond": it starts being an adjective for part of the person, the hair, but then a few decades later you can say "I met a blonde". In French, we can say it too, and we can say also "I met a fat". --Lgriot (talk) 05:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * It's possible in Romanian as well. The one I wrote above is with "the fat man", but there can also be a French-like one with "the fat (one) [masculine]": Grasul care nu s-a mai întors niciodatǎ.
 * German, too. I wrote "der dicke Mann" but it could also be "der Dicke". (Substantivized adjectives, like nouns, are capitalized.) —Angr 20:38, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Hebrew: haeesh shahmen sh'af pam lo hazar---האיש שמן שאף פם לא חזר. (it's closer to: The Fat Man Who Never Returned) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.14.15 (talk) 06:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not quite. It should read האיש השמן שאף פעם לא חזר ha'ish hashamen she'af pa'am lo chazar. Adjectives need to agree with the noun they modify in definiteness, and "time" is spelt פעם, not פם. Macnas (talk) 02:53, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Arabic: السمين اللذي لا ابدا عاد (al-sameen alladhi la abadan 'aada) Adam Bishop (talk) 07:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Icelandic: Feiti karlinn sem kom aldrei aftur.

Norwegian bokmål: Den tykke mannen som aldri kom tilbake.

Danish: Den tykke mand som aldrig kom tilbage. (Only the Icelandic is native.) Haukur (talk) 09:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Polish: Grubas, który nigdy nie wrócił. &mdash; Kpalion(talk) 15:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Swedish: Den tjocka mannen som aldrig återvände. --NorwegianBluetalk 19:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Indonesian: Si-gendut yang tak pernah pulang lagi. Why do you need these translations in the first place? Are we in for an emotional press-conference (international coverage of course) soon? Or is he coming back after so much weight loss that reports of his return would be strongly exaggerated? Bessel Dekker (talk) 22:49, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not familiar with 'si-gendut'. Although...'never came home again'? I like that. Avnas Ishtaroth drop me a line  05:53, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * This is superb. I love the sound of the Arabic Fat Man; it's probably my favorite so far.  Thanks also for clarification on substantivized adjectives; now if someone calls me "Der Dicke" I won't take offense.  I don't have a clever or meaningful answer for BesselDekker's question above, but I am considering a world tour in the near future and will need to print posters, badges and T-shirts announcing my arrival.--The Fat Man Who Never Came Back (talk) 18:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Fridge magnets? Wanderer57 (talk) 15:59, 30 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm not 100% sure of the Arabic since there are a dozen ways to say "fat" and "come back" and another way to say "never", but perhaps AnonMoose or Omidinist can confirm. Adam Bishop (talk) 20:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * It's as-sameen rather than al-sameen since "s" is a sun letter. Eklipse (talk) 18:04, 3 September 2008 (UTC)


 * In Modern Hellenic: Ο εύσαρκος άνδρας που ουδέποτε επανήλθε (educated version), in Greeklish O efsarkos andras pou udepote epanilthe, or Ο χοντρός άντρας που ποτέ δεν ήρθε πίσω (uneducated version), in Greeklish O xontros antras pou pote den irthe piso. NerdyNSK (talk) 13:20, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

man in touch with his feminine side
Does the English language have no positive words for a man in touch with his female intuition, etc.? I can think of concepts like dandy for a well-dressed man or Sophia-level anima, I guess there's metrosexual. I'm looking for a word that means a man who is so admirable because he's well-developped in his feminine qualities yet he's still manly.--Sonjaaa (talk) 16:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "Sensitive New Age Guys", as immortalized by Christine Lavin (the lyrics are rather amusing...)? AnonMoos (talk) 17:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Less heavily connotated, perhaps, (the) sensitive male? Bessel Dekker (talk) 23:25, 28 August 2008 (UTC)


 * "An 80s kind of guy" ? DOR (HK) (talk) 02:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

French to English genealogy translation
I have some family history which is written in French and requires translation into English. If anyone is ready to help, please leave your e-mail or another way of contacting you and I shall write to you ASAP. Thank you very much. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.234.240.31 (talk) 20:56, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm a certified French-to-English translator. My e-mail is  --Sonjaaa (talk) 21:39, 27 August 2008 (UTC)